'Tis the season to be grateful! Which is also the perfect time to dissect and nitpick the persona of the HR professional. Are they all wallflowers? Or did the job make them so? What are the best and worst characteristics of how the HR persona operates? A fun and introspective debate from the duo on this week's episode. Thanks for listening!
Alexa
What's up, Tyson?
Tyson
What is up is that I'm coming at you from the fastest Internet of all time. Oh, so what.
Alexa
Happened to your country ass wifi.
Tyson
Boss Let me let me roll back a little bit. So I guess this was last week. I'm trying to upload one of our videos onto Instagram. Okay. So, like, this is what I do. I spend a lot of time on Instagram, a lot of uploading my upload speed. Get this right. When I did the speed test, it was point six.
Tyson
Seven was my point. Okay, so like.
Alexa
Let's make a big.
Tyson
One, six, seven. So here I am, like trying to upload this video and it's like timely, right? Like, I really want to get this video up posted on Instagram. So I'm like, screw this. I'm walking to the community center. So I pack up the baby and we start walking into a beautiful sunny day. And as I'm walking like I live like in a forested area, so I can only really see one part of the sky.
Tyson
Like when I look at my house, I look and I'm like, all right, we're good. So off we go. And as I'm looking up again, I'm like, oh, crap. There's like some clouds in the sky. And it's about two and a half kilometers to the community center. Okay, I sound so I'm such a pumpkin right now. But anyways, so I'm walking along and like, doesn't the frigging sky just turn black?
Tyson
Opens up so it just whack and you hear like, the rolling thunder in the distance. And I was like, Oh, shit. So like, we start like, picking up the pace a little bit and like, we get to the community center and I'm like, phew, if we made it. Okay, so I can, like, jump in here, wait out the rain, upload my video.
Tyson
Isn't the power off in the community center. So not only is there no Wi-Fi in the community center because power's out, but because all the doors are like like their security system is based on the power. I can't even get in to the community center. So now I'm like, okay, I'm about like two and a half kilometers from home, like, do I run for it or do I just like, wait it out?
Tyson
Like underneath, like an awning or something? Yeah. Anyways, so I was able to wait it out and it was like me and like three that are like skater kids because they were using the skate park at the community center and we're just, like, waiting. And I felt like my baby and like, the thunder is like really a and like, we get hefty storms where I am like, really bad.
Tyson
Like, they're called like Derechos or something. They come in just like out of nowhere, and it's like, anyways, so I just like, wait it out. And it turned out okay. But with that, I kid you not. It had to have been maybe the next day. Okay, this is so weird. So I had this, like, debacle with the internet the next day for the first time since I've lived in this house for two years, the internet guy is going door to door, knocks on my door.
Tyson
He's like, Hey, I can set you up for like faster internet. And I'm like, How convenient. Like, it's like a message from the gods, honestly. So here I am.
Alexa
I've been praying to these guys, like.
Tyson
Answered everybody's prayers. So here I am with hopefully faster Internet.
Alexa
I'll sing. God, you have to pray.
Tyson
We'll see how good.
Alexa
My God, I did. I made my God for a year for you. So I'm glad that you've turned me into a faithful woman. Yeah, I'm so happy to hear that my whole team will be fucking ecstatic. The team will be stoked. Well, congratulations on your faster wife. I your big girl. You got big girl wife.
Tyson
Yeah.
Alexa
Very proud of you. Very proud of you. Um, incredible. Well, speaking of being a big girl, let me read a scene here, and then we'll get cracking on today's topic. Today's episode is brought to you by our community. The people of society join Tyson, myself, a bunch of our guests and a lot of our listeners in the Pop Community Forum.
Alexa
Download Awesome Resources and templates shared by peers get access to cool free resources like Tyson's Art of Compensation Course available to all members at no extra charge. Usually code people problems that people have said e-commerce you get 20% off your membership today again usually call people problems all caps all one word at people of society dot com. All right Tyson today we are going to talk to you and me assistant Alexa on Tyson episode our baby.
Alexa
And we're just going to talk about one of the sort of maybe the stereotypes or caricatures of the professional which is that people are wallflowers and we're going to debate this we're going to talk about this topic. But this comes from a couple of things. One, just having worked in and around the industry for many, many years, it is sort of a known persona that H.R. people are not And again, we're generalizing.
Alexa
I want to call out that we are wildly generalizing. We're going to use a lot of blanket, unfair blanket statements to talk about this. So relax, we're aware but, you know, not known to be risk takers, not known to be the first one to speak up and say, hey, I disagree.
Tyson
And we saw that in our misconceptions. Episode two We.
Alexa
Did.
Tyson
We did. We did exceptions along those lines.
Alexa
Right? So we're sort of double clicking on this one a little bit. And so I think I'd like to start the conversation with just a little bit about maybe let's regurgitate the misconception if you think it is a misconception. And let's talk a little bit about this sort of known persona, because obviously the irony here is that you're in a jar and you're not a wallflower.
Tyson
So and most of our guests have not been they're not. Most likely.
Alexa
Yeah. Most of the people we have on this podcast are not wallflowers. A few we've had to poke, but for the most part, they were not guests on this podcast right Yeah, we tend to we tend to gravitate towards the louder bunch, but yeah. Curious what you think of this when I say wallflowers in nature. What do you think?
Tyson
Well, I think that there's just definitely been this again, whether it's the misconception or not, like the misconception that, like, H.R. is really just there to sort of like do what they're told, make the business. Like, they listen to what the business has to say and they kind of just like do it without like being a yes man sort of thing.
Tyson
Not ever like questioning, pushing back, providing other options, opportunities for things that they could do differently. So there's like definitely this And again, like, is it a misconception? Maybe yes, maybe no. There's also this huge challenge in H.R. that so many of us have imposter syndrome. And I've talked about this recently on on our show, but there's this sort of this opposing thing where it's like people just feel like we're there to be walked over.
Tyson
We're feeling a sense of imposter syndrome, and it's kind of like the perfect storm for us just to sort of like do what we're like, do what we're told to do and not ever sort of laird foot down or put our foot down, that sort of thing. So it's kind of this, like, double thing. And I think I think oftentimes the reason is and at least for me and I'll speak for my own personal experience, any time that I've felt imposter syndrome, it's because I've just been there sort of maybe an entry level or very new to my career.
Tyson
And here I am advising vice presidents, directors, senior managers. So I'm never really advising people that are at my level or working with people. My level oftentimes is thrown in with managers. And like if they're pushing back on something, it would be to a manager, a director level. So maybe that's where my imposter syndrome has always come from.
Tyson
I'm like, who am I to be advising these particular individuals? But so yeah, so I think that there definitely is some truth to this, to this misconception because a lot of H.R. folks just don't they don't speak up. And I know in my experience, a lot of what we talk about with like among H.R. is like how do we not be wallflowers and how do we learn to push back and that sort of thing.
Tyson
So it's obviously there's obviously some truth to it.
Alexa
And some people at the time, it's like people are always asking questions about like how I raised this thing. And it's like, well, let's talk about how.
Tyson
You rate how do I build credibility, how I build like confidence. Yeah, none of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alexa
Well, it's interesting. So I think if I was to step back for a quick second look at this from the business side of things is like, I always wonder like, is this this is this a symptom or is this like is this a symptom of just the fact? Like the conversation we always have, which is like H.R. has an administrative history.
Alexa
It has a clerical history and a lot of what I think the reason we're here and we get fired up about this stuff is like we think there is actually a bifurcated side of this, which is like the strategy and the the sort of like more people dynamic team optimization, human optimization piece of this and that. Those two things, all depending on the organization, you just get lumped under H.R., right?
Alexa
So, so, so sometimes I think the issue is like the H.R. function or the, the weight in the organization has shifted and maybe the people in that position or that group have not necessarily shifted with the time's right. So I'm speaking of like old school, very administrative very bureaucratic, quote unquote departments. And they very much still exist. I think they are slowly being phased out as larger organizations realize that operations like true operations and clerical work in administration can largely be farmed out to you or outsourced, and that the people function is actually different and needs to be optimized differently but it definitely still happens.
Alexa
And so part of me wonder is, is this like a chicken or the egg? Right? Like, is this the persona of a lot of or a known persona H.R. people? Because there's just been so many people in these more administrative, clerical roles where they didn't need to be thought provoking and sort of, you know, a little more than I on the, you know, the Myers-Briggs and and all these things.
Alexa
Or is it that, like, this kind of work just attracts maybe people who are more willing to sit back? Because to your point, they're not in the steering wheel. They're always the passenger. When you're working with a manager or executive team or whatever. Right. You're not on the front lines. You're you're an internal advisor. Yeah. So I just I it for me, it's hard to tell.
Alexa
I will say, having done this podcast for a year with you and having worked with sort of thousands of people that I would consider to be sort of quote unquote new age or new guard or all of our pop community members, all of that I don't think this persona is as baked and as long for this world as it used to be.
Alexa
Mm hmm. You know, I'm talking to a perfect example of it right now. I think the profession is starting to change and attract more people. A lot of our guests, we're example that have a lot more of the like I don't know, I'm coming to this from like I'm going to tell you the things that you need to hear that are uncomfortable.
Alexa
We need to have a different kind of conversation here. But I don't know, maybe that's recency bias.
Tyson
Yeah. And I definitely think that you and I do think like I think that as a profession, like, not only are the people in H.R. becoming a lot more like skilled and savvy and it's attracting a lot more people who are like more interested in the strategy side of things. And less of the administrative. But also, I think there's such a better understanding from the business of what H.R. can do so that.
Alexa
I think we have a place to go. But I think the business community is starting to kind of shake their head up and go, Wait a minute.
Tyson
Yeah, exactly. And and there are some managers that really respect the function and are like, Holy crap, like, I am only as good as like my age, H.R. like, you know, that kind of thing. But then there's also the managers that there's still so many managers that don't understand that. So it's, Oh, hey, Tyson, can you submit this form for me?
Tyson
And it's like, no, it's not going to do it, right? So it's like that then again. But then I might be like, as the H.R. person, I, you know what? Like, might as well. It's easier just for me to submit his performance forms than for me to have to explain it. And then there I am just to push over.
Tyson
And then that's like the H.R. Wallflower misconception is just like, you know. Yeah, and further. But I think, I think we're so I'll, I'll share the sort of current events or recent events that led, I think, to this conversation. So I think it'll be really good for, for the conversation here. So I think most people at this point know about the situation in Canada where Lisa LaFlamme was fired shortly after.
Tyson
She's a news anchor that has had a very long career with the media. I was, you know, very sort like everyone respected her, etc. I guess what happened was there was a conversation among managers where someone said a comment, something like who who allowed her to let her hair go gray? And then shortly after she was fired for really a business decision was the reasoning right?
Tyson
As these conversations always said, it was a business decision. So that was one thing that happened. And then another individual, her name was Ashley. No, sorry, Danielle. Graham. She came up on Twitter and said that she was also fired. And the timing of her termination was such that she submitted a formal complaint about harassment to H.R.. They had a meeting scheduled, let's say, March 11th, formal complaints submitted to H.R., a meeting with H.R. about that complaint on March 11th.
Tyson
She was called in and fired on March 10th because of a business decision. And then there was another woman, Jennifer Valentine. Again, similar circumstances. I don't have all the details on this one, but again, a situation where there was like, you know, potential harassment investigations, that sort of thing, like and it just was fired for kind of like no reason.
Tyson
So at what point does someone in H.R. need to take responsibility? And I get it. I get that we are simply advisors. They teach us that in college. They literally teach us in college that we are there to advise the business. We do not make decisions. There's a name for it. It's on the exam. I got that question wrong.
Tyson
I can still remember. I don't get many questions.