52 - The Union Bomb

Unions are basically an HR curse word. But are they really that bad? On this week’s episode, we sit down with an OG of HR, Connie Marie. Connie has worked a lengthy HR career alongside unions, and she shares with us what is and isn’t possible when you are governed by collective agreements. Connie shares that although unions might equal red tape, there is still so much opportunity to kill it as an HR partner and make shit happen. Oh, and did we mention that Connie is also Tyson’s mom! Alexa takes this opportunity to ask about generational views on HR, so buckle in for this family affair. posting for blog entry



Release Date: June 29, 2022

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[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Warning. This podcast is about the realities of working in People Operations. This is not a stuck-up PC compliance-based or employment law podcast about stuffy, outdated HR practices. Shit will get real here, and we assume no responsibility.

[00:00:16] Tyson MacKenzie: Just another day in the office.

[00:00:18] Alexa Baggio: There's nothing better than a bunch of people who work in HR getting around the table and sharing these stories. We have this out-of-body experience in HR where you're like, "[unintelligible 00:00:26]."

[00:00:26] Tyson: HR is not that bad. It's not.

[00:00:29] Alexa: Come hang out with my sister and I on this podcast, we'll make you laugh.

[00:00:31] Speaker 1: This is the People Problems Podcast with Alexa Baggio and Tyson MacKenzie.

[00:00:39] Alexa: Tyson.

[00:00:42] Tyson: How are you?

[00:00:43] Alexa: What's up? I'm all right. I'm gearing up for all sorts of changes. How are you?

[00:00:49] Tyson: Good. Also gearing up for changes to my backyard, because my husband has been a busy little bee, and he's been building a massive deck. I'm super fast excited-

[00:01:01] Alexa: Nice.

[00:01:02] Tyson: -that we-- [crosstalk]

[00:01:02] Alexa: Does he have single brothers? More importantly, does he have single brothers?

[00:01:05] Tyson: He has a single brother. Yes.

[00:01:08] Alexa: All right, maybe I'll get myself to Ottawa in the [laugh] near future and find someone that can build me a deck.

[00:01:16] Tyson: I love that.

[00:01:17] Alexa: I'm glad that people are outside doing things. People are out and about. It's nice. I went to some events this weekend, they were great. It's just nice to see people back doing their thing. Just human interaction. Let me do our homework before we move on, which is that Today's episode is brought to you by the people of society joined by hundreds of people of professionals to share more stories, exchange ideas and best practices, share and download resources, and just be yourself. The people of societies is a community of new and experienced practitioners built for the people-people by the people-people, no salespeople or sponsor participation allowed. People problems listeners can get 20% off an annual club's membership with the code people problems 20, that's pplproblems20@peopleopssociety.com.

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[00:02:09] Alexa: Tyson, I wouldn't call this in the news, I would call this news we missed. [laugh]

[00:02:14] Tyson: We are out of the news. We are out of the loop.

[00:02:18] Alexa: We're out of the news, we just completely missed the news. I had to do this today because I just find it so funny that, of course, we missed this, and, of course, this is not a big enough deal, which is that recently was International HR Day, and I had no idea that that one was even a thing, and two, that it was recently.

[00:02:34] Tyson: Can you wait, I knew it was a thing.

[00:02:35] Alexa: I wanted to call that out.

[00:02:37] Tyson: I knew it was a thing, but I thought it was in September.

[00:02:38] Alexa: You did?

[00:02:39] Tyson: I thought it was in September.

[00:02:41] Alexa: Okay, I did a little homework, because I was like, "How did I miss this?" This could be geographically-based, but everything I found was the only people that acknowledged this was Sham, and it was last year. They were like, "Oh, second annual International HR Day." I was like, "You're trying to make such happen, HR [inaudible 00:03:01]." What I found out was on daysoftheyear.com, which is obviously a really well-vetted resource on the internet, is that Human Resource professional day was first referenced by Governor-General Sir Patrick Allen in October of 2013.

I've no idea as I'm assuming this is the UK. It was created to recognize and celebrate human resource professionals who play an integral role in ensuring the success of organizations by nurturing developing human capital. While the holiday was in the discussion back in 2001 on hr.com on the internet, make sure to make sure that you know that hr.com is on the internet. [laugh] The holiday didn't come into the spotlight until most recently when some other person I've never heard of declared it official holiday in Jamaica in 2018.

Unclear where this actually comes from, but there is some history of it being mentioned. Then it says, another reference to the holiday, which you'll love, Tyson. It says that it comes from Sheridan College, an undergraduate college in Ontario, Canada that celebrates the holiday annually in its business department. A little bit of history there, it came from somewhere.

[00:04:09] Tyson: Because I'm looking at Days Of The Year, and I see Human Resource Professional Day happening on September 26th.

[00:04:16] Alexa: I know, but recently people were posting on LinkedIn, and it's possible that maybe we just have a different date in the US, that it was like, I don't know-

[00:04:24] Tyson: It's definitely may 20th.

[00:04:25] Alexa: -a week ago.

[00:04:26] Tyson: Yes, I'm seeing May 20th now as well, man. We can have two days.

[00:04:30] Alexa: That's the other funny part, is at 5:20, because 4:20 would be too much fun, and HR people aren't allowed to be fun, I guess.

[00:04:36] Tyson: Absolutely not. Not allowed.

[00:04:38] Alexa: Yes, 5:20, no 4:20 for us. But, anyway, I think Days Of The Year and stuff are ridiculous, because there's just too many of them at this point. The best part about this is as I was looking it up, I found out that National Lumberjack Day is Monday, September 26. There really is a day for everything, and happy HR day whenever that actually is. Sorry we missed it.

[00:04:59] Tyson: I think every day. Every day should be HR day?

[00:05:01] Alexa: Yes, exactly. Every day should be my birthday too. I had to chuckle that I was like, "Of course, this is under celebrated because everything we do in HR is under celebrated," but, here we are. All right, well, without further ado, I cannot wait to introduce a very, very, very special guest today. Our guest today is Connie, who is no less than Tyson's mom. She's our honorary guest. She's an OG HR star in the family, and has over 35 years of experience working in various HR roles. She's pretty much seen it all with the added benefit of working most of her career in a unionized environment, and she's no stranger to the drama.

The countdown is on to retirement, and Connie can't wait to finally be working on her dream job, which is full-time grandma, and I'm pretty sure, Tyson had some influence on this fire. Connie, thank you for being here. Wonderful to meet with you.

[00:05:48] Connie: You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

[00:05:51] Alexa: Thanks for hanging out with us. Very excited to have you. This is our first family member on the podcast, but obviously, you're the OG, so, no one better to kick us off here. Tell us a little bit about yourself, Connie, other than being the mom to the famous Tyson. [crosstalk]

[00:06:07] Connie: The grandmother to the famous Rosie.

[00:06:11] Alexa: Exactly, the one and only, world's cutest baby. Tell us a little bit about, how did you get into this crazy world?

[00:06:18] Connie: How did I get into this HR crazy world? I guess it started, oh boy, back in the '80s, I worked for a retail store, and didn't start in HR. I started like as a cashier, and then just worked my way up. I became a supervisor to the cashiers, and then the store was opening a new location in a different city, and I was asked to transfer to that new store to open up the new store, which involved a lot of training, a lot of hiring.

That was probably my first introduction to the HR world. Hiring people, training people, opening up a brand new store, and that was back in the '80s. From then, I was a supervisor in that store. Then from there, I met my husband at the time, I moved to a different city, stayed with the same retail store, and was promoted to more of a true HR position, and back then it was called Personnel and Training Officer.

[00:07:24] Alexa: Oh dear, always have the coolest titles. Just the coolest titles.

[00:07:28] Connie: Yes. I have to say that's my first introduction to HR. I learned a whole lot about people, a whole lot about people's problems, and then from there, I went to the Federal Government, not in an HR capacity, I think I was in accounts receivable, and that was horrible. That was really not where I wanted to be, but in that job, I was in a particular position that dealt with pilots that traveled. I was involved in making their travel-- [crosstalk]

[00:08:03] Alexa: Pilots like flying planes?

[00:08:05] Connie: Yes. Pilots. [crosstalk]

[00:08:06] Alexa: Very cool.

[00:08:06] Connie: Helicopter pilots, mechanics and stuff. What I liked most about that job was the interaction with the people. That brought out my true passion, if you will, for working with people, mind you, it wasn't HR, but it had an HR spin just because I dealt with people, and was accounts receivable, making sure that they had a hotel, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff, but it was really interacting with the people that I liked the most.

[00:08:33] Tyson: Did they have HR positions? Do you think like a lot of this was you not having official titles and stuff was because like back then, they didn't have like-- [crosstalk]

[00:08:42] Connie: Oh, they didn't have HR people.

[00:08:43] Tyson: They didn't have like the big HR departments that we have now?

[00:08:46] Connie: Yes.

[00:08:49] Alexa: The personnel department.

[00:08:50] Connie: It was the personnel department. Exactly.

[00:08:53] Tyson: Personalia.

[00:08:53] Connie: Yes. From there, I came to where I am now, which is another level of municipal government, and I went right into the HR world. I did a number of jobs there, like clerk, administrative assistant, all within HR. Then my career took me to a staffing role. I was involved in staffing, hiring people, working with management to competitions, and from there, I came to my permanent or my current job, I guess, as an HR consultant, and this is where I sit today.

[00:09:32] Tyson: Staffing, it's not like recruiting, because you don't need to recruit people for government. It's more about actually filling the roles with the plethora of applicants that you have.

[00:09:46] Connie: Exactly. Oftentimes staffing with municipal government is from within. We do hire externally, but a lot of the movement is within, because we are guided by collective agreements, so we have to.

[00:10:01] Tyson: Because of the unions?

[00:10:02] Connie: Because of the unions.

[00:10:05] Alexa: She went there early. I was going to try to get one more question in before-

[00:10:09] Connie: That's okay.

[00:10:09] Alexa: -you dropped the union bomb. No, it's okay. It's much more just saying, I want to get to the union bomb, because as everyone who listens to this knows I'm not necessarily supportive of, but fascinated by the concept of unions and how they work. Tell us a little bit, Connie, about, just for people who don't maybe work in the world of unions and collective bargaining, talk to us a little bit about the landscape of what that means, and maybe who the players are when you're interacting with labor unions.

I'm not sure everybody would know how they're set up, who leads the union, who's in charge of the membership benefits, who's negotiating on the side of the government, vice versa. Tell us a little bit about the players in the union space.

[00:10:49] Connie: Okay. I have to be honest, I don't know the nuts and bolts of the union, and how the union membership works on the true union side.

[00:11:01] Alexa: Yes, on the government side, on the other side.

[00:11:04] Connie: On the HR side, my involvement with the union generally comes when there's-

[00:11:13] Tyson: A problem?

[00:11:14] Connie: -a problem

[00:11:17] Alexa: That doesn't surprise me. Okay.

[00:11:20] Connie: Whether it be, not attendance, but a performance problem, or if it's an accommodation, we're trying to find a position for an employee that can't work in their regular job because of an illness, or a sickness, or an injury, the union gets involved in those situations too because oftentimes, the union thinks that me as an HR professional, that I'm not doing my best to find a position for this injured worker.

[00:11:55] Tyson: You have your side, what your role then as HR, they think that you're there to protect the company, versus the union rep is there to protect the employee?

[00:12:06] Connie: Exactly.

[00:12:08] Tyson: I guess, historically, unions came about because, big, bad companies were not doing what they can for employees. With HR, typically, you're on the management side, versus being on the employee side.

[00:12:20] Connie: Yes.

[00:12:22] Tyson: Then, it makes things so complicated because, when you're having, let's say just a simple performance conversation, in my world, I'm used to just being me, the manager, and the employee. For you, it's all sorts of people that end up in those conversations, right?

[00:12:41] Connie: Yes, but only at the tail end of the conversations. A lot of the performance management discussions don't include the union. The upfront discussions include, usually, the manager reaching out to me saying, "I have this such and such issue, how do we deal with it?" We talk it through. At this point, the union would only be involved if they're going down either a suspension road or a termination.

[00:13:11] Tyson: Do they have to formally submit a grievance? Wait, what's a grievance?

[00:13:20] Connie: How can I put it in layman's terms? A grievance is a complaint, I guess, against the city for something the employee thinks that they've been wrongly done by. I don't know. As an example, we post a position, they don't get the position, they don't win the competition. Somebody else wins the job. They grieve it because they think that they have more seniority, they have more experience, blah, blah, blah. It's a formal complaint. That's what the grievance is. I don't get involved in grievances though.

[00:13:53] Alexa: Okay. Just to back up for a hot second, because there's a lot--

[00:13:59] Tyson: I have so many questions because I know nothing about union. Pardon moi, because I'm getting ahead of it. I'm like, "I've never worked in a union."

[00:14:03] Alexa: I know. This is mother-daughter bonding right here. You guys don't talk about this over the dinner table? That's a shock. Just to back up for a hot second, Connie. You are working with effectively, pools of labor that are unionized for whatever position, it doesn't matter. Whether that's physical labor, administrative labor, whatever. It doesn't matter. You're dealing with either a singular union or multiple unions that are effectively, they'll be available labor pool to the municipality, to the city? What you have to do is use those labor pools effectively to get done and fill the positions that the government entity needs, but working within the "collective bargaining agreement" of that particular union?

[00:14:49] Connie: Exactly.

[00:14:50] Alexa: Let's call it, I'm just making shit up, the light switch manufacturer's union. You have to work within the bargaining agreement that that union has with the City, which may be very different than another union's agreement with the City. Which may also preclude you from working with any of those people efficiently. I have first-hand experience working within hiring unions in some of the work that we do here at Perks with our trade shows and some other things. My question for you would be just to relate this to people, like what are some of the things that come up, and why are those different to deal with than what Tyson is used to doing in her role?

Why is it a little bit different to work with it? Is it because you need to always be watching the agreement, is it because it's just hard to manage across the union's, what are some of the things that come up that may not be obvious to someone who doesn't do this kind of work?

[00:15:41] Connie: I think the most obvious thing would be any decisions that are made, we have to keep the collective agreement in mind.

[00:15:52] Alexa: Is it your job to know the agreement, or is there someone on your side that's like interpreting and managing that agreement?

[00:15:59] Connie: We have an ally, we have a whole labor relations department. Nobody knows the collective agreement inside and out.

[00:16:07] Tyson: Not even the employee?

[00:16:08] Connie: Not even the employees. Oh, the employees tend to know better than we do, though.

[00:16:13] Alexa: [unintelligible 00:16:13] quote it back to you.

[crosstalk]

[00:16:17] Connie: "Article 34.1 says I can do this." I'm like, "Really?" Anyways, go back to your question, Alexa. What was your question?

[00:16:28] Alexa: My question is just, what are the things that tend to come up when you have this collective bargaining agreement in the way of working with labor and staff? [crosstalk] What is different about dealing with that as the conduit for your relationship versus Tyson, for example, who is used to working directly with employees. There is no like, before I respond to you, I got to make sure that this agreement has been taken into account. What are some of the things that come up that maybe just are not obvious to people, they get entangled with the City?

[00:17:00] Connie: One of main thing with one of our collective agreements is based around seniority. When it comes to filling positions, they run a competition, people are interviewed, we have a passing grade of 70%. You can go through the interview process, you can get 70% on the interview, and have 65,000 seniority points. Or you could get 95 on the interview, and have less seniority. You do better on the interview, but you have more seniority, the person with more seniority will get that job, if it's a seniority-based competition.

[00:17:44] Tyson: That's the thing that [unintelligible 00:17:45].

[00:17:49] Alexa: I've lived in Boston for seven years, you do not want to talk about union laws like this shit where you're like, "Wait, what? That guy just gets the job for the day because he's more senior?" Like, "What?"

[00:17:57] Connie: Just to be clear, more senior is time. It's not like based on skill necessary. It's time in the company. It's not like you're more senior because you have better skill sets, which is like, what a normal company defines as being more senior.

[00:18:13] Alexa: In some cases, that makes zero sense, because you're like, "This is actually a skill-based thing." I actually want the guy who's got more still, not the guy has got more hours. Then there's certain unions like basic labor unions, like general contracting unions, that you're like, you just lift heavy shit for the City, like you can do this Tyson as well as Connie can do this. It doesn't matter that Connie has got four more years of lifting boxes, except that it does under the collective bargaining agreements. When you go to get people to lift boxes, you have to hire Connie first, which is bizarre.

That's a perfect example, Connie, of a common constraint to working with a union that I don't think people take into account, is like, how that can really fuck up your ability to do things, staff people, and work things in when you are, for example, required to always take the seniority? It's a built in bias, right? You have to always take in the seniority, if, for example, that is part of the role.

[00:19:06] Connie: It goes the other way too like, you can't just be like, "Oh, this guy sucks. Let's just give him his termination notice and fire him." It's not that easy. It's not nearly that easy when it comes to unions. No, no.

[00:19:21] Alexa: So, seniorities if they won?

[00:19:23] Connie: Only for some positions. Not all the positions are seniority-based. Some are merit-based. That's different. That's better.

[00:19:30] Alexa: Let's talk about, how does that work? Let's talk about how that works.

[00:19:33] Connie: Merit based is the person-- Let's go back to the interview process, the person that scores highest on the interview gets the job, seniority.

[00:19:44] Alexa: Who is scoring the interview?

[00:19:46] Connie: That's a good question. There's usually three people on the panel. There's usually the hiring manager for the position, a supervisor in that immediate area, and then maybe somebody from HR, not always. It could be somebody from a different department, so not the union. Not the union, until there's grievance.

[00:20:07] Tyson: Yes. Union gets involved when something's going on that they don't like.

[00:20:09] Alexa: When something's wrong.

[00:20:10] Connie: Exactly. When something they perceive is wrong.

[00:20:13] Alexa: Right. They're like, "You should have given that senior job to so and so, but instead, you gave it to that guy."

[00:20:18] Tyson: That's a good thing to make clear too though, because from someone who's never worked in a union, I just imagine anything that you're doing in your day-to-day job, whether you're the manager or the HR consultant, you've got the union breathing down your neck, but it's not so much like that. It's only really when something goes a mock, and then you've got the Labor Relations consultant as well, and they probably know better the ins and outs of the agreements and stuff like that, the collective agreements.

[00:20:52] Alexa: Then there's things like, for example, the Collective Bargaining Agreements are all about compensation and perks, benefits, all those things. Some of that comes with union membership, and that's different. For example, you can't hire a certain kind of laborer for less than a certain wage, and in certain places, depending on what it is, again, a lot of this is labor because that's my point of reference here, but, you, for example, have to pay a union supervisor a certain number of dollars per hour to watch the four people do something.

There's all these things that get baked into that Collective Bargaining Agreement that are largely and originally, this concept here was around wage floors, like, "Hey, you can't pay the factory workers at sewing company A less than X dollars an hour, that's what we've agreed to so they all show up at work every day." Wages, seniority, merit, what else comes into play?

[00:21:48] Tyson: Hiring and firing, we talked about.

[00:21:50] Alexa: Hiring and firing. There's lots of rules about what you can and cannot do, who you can hire, when you can fire, why, what else?

[00:21:58] Connie: Can we talk about accommodations? If someone needs to be accommodated, and like how that works with putting them into the jobs.

[00:22:06] Tyson: Yes.

[00:22:07] Alexa: What does that mean for people? Go ahead.

[00:22:10] Connie: Okay.

[00:22:10] Alexa: Explain what that means first, Tyson.

[00:22:12] Tyson: Oh, this isn't so much a union thing as it might be more of like a government thing, but just a little about how accommodations work. In a typical organization, like from where I am, my standpoint, it's you usually are able to find an accommodation for the person in their job, and unfortunately--

[00:22:33] Alexa: Like a physical accommodation?

[00:22:34] Tyson: Whatever the accommodation is. Whether it's physical, whether it's time, style of work, whatever it is. Usually, from my perspective, when I see an accommodation, the person stays in their role, and we accommodate their role, like their job. If they are an admin assistant, they continue to be an admin assistant with accommodations.

If they, for some reason can't do the admin assistant job, I, in my career, haven't seen a lot of moving around. They might maybe go be an admin assistant somewhere else, but there's not a lot of change when it comes to accommodations. One thing, I ask this question because I've heard you talk about the movements that happen in government when it comes to accommodation. I'm just interested to know how that process works.

[00:23:22] Connie: Okay. Where I work, accommodations are very tricky, for lack of a better term. For the group of people that I support, they often don't have a lot of transferable skills. Let's say an example, they work as an equipment operator, and they get hurt on the job, and they can no longer be an equipment operator for the rest of their career. They cannot be an equipment operator. Now, sometimes they get better, and they're accommodated in a different job for a period of time, and then they can go back to be an equipment operator. Oftentimes they can't go back. Here I am with this employee who cannot be an equipment operator as an example, has no other skills, no computer skills, no office skills, and I have to look for a position for them.

[00:24:19] Alexa: Because you cannot fire that person?

[00:24:20] Tyson: Because you can't fire, and it's what I'm getting at. In my world--

[00:24:25] Alexa: Tyson's about to explode.

[00:24:26] Tyson: In my world, it's like, "Sorry, we don't have anything for you, you can no longer do your job."

[00:24:33] Alexa: Right. But because in this instance, the collective bargaining agreement states that you have to employ a certain percentage, or the whole union of this workforce, or everyone with this union certification.

[00:24:46] Tyson: You just can't fire people.

[00:24:47] Connie: You just can't fire people that are unionized that easy. If they're hard at work, as an example, excuse me, then we are obligated, and that's not even so much, let me think here, that's not even so much the collective agreement as it is our accommodation policy.

[00:25:04] Tyson: Also the law.

[00:25:05] Connie: It is. Yes.

[00:25:06] Alexa: Well, I'm trying to figure out like, my first thought was like, "Well, that person just gets disability. That just gets paid." Here in the states, people stay on disability for years and years, and years, and years and years, I don't know how it works with unions, but I guess my question is, let's say this person gets some accommodation through disability insurance for a while, and that goes away. They're still a member of this union, and they're still sidewalk chalk drawer union, and they're a member, and they can't draw on the sidewalk anymore. You are still required to find employment for that person versus that union finding another client that needs sidewalk chalk-drawn. That's a horrible example.

[00:25:47] Connie: You've got it.

[00:25:50] Alexa: You got a pool of labor that you basically have to employ, and when things go wrong, it becomes very inefficient. That's a major con of working with the union, is that, to Tyson's point, you can't just be like, "Sorry, here's your disability insurance, go try to draw chalk freelance. Have fun." You have to find a way to utilize that labor because it's required of you. It makes it very inefficient, I'm assuming, and to use that, because you can't just go hire another sidewalk chalk drawer from a different place. You're not allowed to do that. [crosstalk] Exclusivity.

[00:26:25] Connie: You can. Back to that. Some people are on permanent disability. If they are unemployable for whatever reason, they got injured or whatever, if it's that significant or severe, then they are on disability for the rest of their lives. It's when their doctor in consultation with the City health and wellness person determines that that person can work. They can't do the job of the sidewalk chalk painter, but they can do something. That's where I come in, and I say, "Well, they can't paint the sidewalk. What else can they do?"

I look at other areas of the City to find out where we can put this person to do what we call or refer to as meaningful work. That sometimes when back to the union, the union sometimes gets involved because it's not always easy to find a position for somebody that has limited skills. Not only it's, they don't have a lot of skills, but we don't often have vacant jobs. We have to have vacant job to put the person in. We can't just make up a job for this person, it has to exist.

[00:27:37] Alexa: Well, it's funny because, if we were to play this against the private company version that Tyson is so used to, and you pit these against each other, there is not a world in which you can say, "Okay, well I can't fire this person, so I have to just go find or make up a job for them." Then you wind up putting someone in a job where they're probably not optimized. If anyone was wondering why governments are so slow, and they can be so inefficient, it's because of issues like this. I guess my question is, the onus is on you as the "employer" in this instance of the union labor to find that person a job?

[00:28:12] Connie: It is, however, they're also obligated to look for a job as well. They can look at the internal postings, oftentimes they don't.

[00:28:21] Alexa: They have to try,

[00:28:23] Connie: They do have to try, and they have to be reminded that they have to look at the internal postings. If there's something they see that they want to be considered for, then they let me know.

[00:28:32] Tyson: I think this is so interesting. I brought it up because it just shows you that whether it has to do with the union or not, this is technically the law where we live, and it's like what the best practice would be. You're supposed to do that, but there are so many things that, we call it the HR seeding in the private sector, that you can like, what can you get away with, versus in the environment that you're working with, especially--

[00:29:01] Alexa: Forgiveness, not permission.

[00:29:04] Tyson: It's a little bit more higher risk I just feel like when there's a union in government.

[00:29:08] Alexa: I would argue this is the highest risk in this particular instance, because we were talking about government entities and unions, which are in some cases also government entities. Nobody gets to shortcut here. This is as bad as this gets, stiff as it gets.

[00:29:17] Tyson: That's what I'm saying. It's just as risk-averse as you can possibly be-

[00:29:25] Alexa: On both sides, yes.

[00:29:25] Tyson: -in your environment. Because you've got the union on one side, the fact that you're government on the other side, you're not bending any rules, you're not asking for forgiveness, you're doing it.

[00:29:36] Alexa: Not even that, it's just both entities are set up to be that on both sides, regardless of if there's not even a situation going wrong. What this does highlight is, because there's all kinds of unions, there aren't all unions that work for governments. There's unions that work for all kinds of labor, like for us in events, but I guess a lot of what is possible and allowed is also regulated on a government level. It's voted in. There's a whole policy and a whole teamsters org, this is all labor relationship. There's a whole way that unions operate on the other side of inside the union. That's a whole different ball of wax.

[00:30:14] Connie: Oh, yes. It's the whole government.

[00:30:14] Alexa: When you're trying to use them as a labor pool, yes, exactly, what this does is it highlights for people, I think while you are implementing a system of a guaranteed, let's call it lifestyle, wage-earning, meaningful work clause, whatever, the con of that is serious inefficiencies when this stuff comes up. What you get is a guaranteed labor pool. What you get is fixed cost for your wages. What you get is, in theory, and depending on what the work is, possibly a highly captive audience of laborers that may be hard to get otherwise, but what you give up is you give up flexibility in your ability to optimize those people for their role when something happens.

What you give up is your ability to use the free market to change wages according to what the work people want to do as right. We've talked a lot about some of the cons. Are there any pros to working with unions probably that maybe are not so obvious? I bet when it goes well, it's like super easy.

[00:31:20] Connie: Personally, I like to build a good relationship with my union rep, which I have, because oftentimes, the thought out there is-- And the union reps think that we're out against the employee, and we're not out against the employee. They think we're doing everything we can to not give the employee work or whatever the case is.

[00:31:40] Alexa: That's their job, right?

[00:31:41] Connie: Exactly, they're there to support the employee. I have to say, they're not always reasonable, but if you make a good way--

[00:31:51] Alexa: What human is, Connie.

[00:31:52] Connie: Yes, exactly.

[00:31:53] Alexa: What human is.

[00:31:54] Connie: Exactly. What I've learned over my many years of working at the city is that, if you build that relationship with that union person, and reach out to them, have those ongoing conversations about the problem employee, then they see that you do give a shit, right, and you are there to help them like, "Oh, wow. Connie's just reached out to me about so and so."

[00:32:16] Alexa: Like, "This one gives a shit, don't burn this bridge."

[00:32:18] Connie: Exactly, because a lot of people don't. There's a lot of fighting amongst the City versus the union. That's what people think. It's not always that way. Like I said, my thought, and what I've done in the past is I've made a good relationship with that union person, and we work collaboratively together. We talk about the issues of the employee. "How can we fix it? This is my role. This is your role. Let's work together and get this person either back to work, or back on the straight narrow in terms of performance." I have to say I do have a good relationship with the union for the most part. They feel comfortable calling me up, and saying, "What the hell's going on with so and so?" I'll tell them.

[00:33:08] Alexa: You don't have any flexibility in who that person is, that person is assigned to certain laborers, or that person is assigned to your organization?

[00:33:16] Connie: They're assigned to departments of the organization. I think we have maybe three or four national union reps, and they're assigned to different departments. I don't get to choose who I deal with.

[00:33:29] Tyson: Going back to the conversation, this workplace fighting with the union, have you ever gone through a strike?

[00:33:37] Connie: Oh, yes, I did. I did go through a strike.

[00:33:41] Tyson: Can you tell us why a strike happens?

[00:33:44] Connie: A strike typically happens because, the employees, they're in collective bargaining perhaps, and they're changing the effective agreement. They're renegotiating, and the employees are not getting what they want. They're pissed off.

[00:34:01] Alexa: They go on strike.

[00:34:05] Alexa: Oh, wait.

[00:34:06] Connie: I wasn't really involved.

[crosstalk]

[00:34:06] Alexa: Oh, here's a fun story. Once upon a time, it's going to make me sound like such an asshole, but once upon a time I dated an NFL player, and I dated this NFL player. He was actually good. He was a nice guy. He was a good dude. He was not what you think of when you think of a football player, but when he joined the league, he was here in the states, the NFL, they were in the middle of a collective bargaining strike.

The players were threatening not to go to practice, not to show up, just taking a stance like, "We're not going to do this," because they were largely fighting for better healthcare coverage, which is a whole different ball of wax that we won't get into on this conversation. What I didn't realize, and maybe you have some thoughts here at least from your experience is, I didn't realize that not only do you negotiate literally everything, they had a clause in their collective bargaining agreement that was like-- It was crazy stuff. It was like, after a certain number of years, you get a certain thing, but it's based on a formula, and it's like it applies to everybody, but there's all these tiers.

It actually gets quite complicated what you can negotiate on behalf of other people and how they work, but what was interesting to me is that they also negotiate the amount of time that the collective bargaining agreement exists. It's like, "Oh, and we're going to agree to this for two years. The last one was five, but we'll only give you two years of this crap because you didn't give us something that we wanted." It's this like constant moving target. All of a sudden, I feel like you'll see a news article that's like, "Oh, all of a sudden, so and so, union is on strike," and you're like, "Wait a minute, weren't they just on strike?" You're like, "Yes, the collective bargaining was only a year long." [crosstalk] It's a crazy moving target.

[00:35:41] Tyson: I feel like the-

[00:35:42] Alexa: Insignificantly worse.

[00:35:43] Tyson: -employer wants it to be as long as possible so that they're not dealing with increasing--

[00:35:48] Alexa: Again, we're used to at will around here, Tyson. It's crazy if you sit down and think about all the shit you could possibly negotiate on behalf of an employee. What chair they sit in, what desk they sit at? What hours they work? How far up the blinds go on the windows? The average AC temperature in the office. It gets fucking asinine the shit that they will put in bargaining agreements.

[00:36:11] Tyson: I think that when they they're renegotiating, I think it's also agreed to what's changing. I think there's a lot of things that they just can go through and like check, check, check, check, check. It's fine, but we're focusing on renegotiating wages and stuff. [crosstalk]

[00:36:26] Alexa: Then you hear about crazy stuff. Like in the city of Boston, and this is a common one, in major cities, they'll have these contracts with labor unions that move corporation office buildings. Everybody knows there's these orange tubs, I don't know if you guys have them in Canada, but they're like these orange bins that basically are like union bins.

It's like, if you're moving from an office on first street to an office on third street, a union guy has to move that box. It's contracted by the City. Nobody touches those boxes. It basically guarantees, they have work, and there's time and a place for that, but it's like you're assuming like, "Oh, well, it's fine. We'll have the number of people, when we need to move boxes, we'll move those boxes."

It's like, that's not necessarily how that works. It just gets asinine after a while. You think like, "These five we agreed to from last year, this one we'll negotiate on, the time, we'll negotiate on again, because this one was a little short for us." Then they start throwing in this random shit that's like, "Oh, and by the way, the boxes have to be orange, and they can't ever weigh more than 35 pounds or we have to get paid time and a half to move them."

[00:37:27] Tyson: Wait, I think that that's a negotiation strategy there. [laughter] No, no, no. I think that that's actually a negotiation strategy, they put in for stuff to take up time, like useless, silly things to take up time during the negotiation.

[00:37:41] Alexa: Yes. Just makes it harder. Absolutely. Just like every time I host a trade show in Boston, I have to pay four guys per hour, and I have to pay a union guy to supervise them. Anything you have to get on a ladder, you got to have a union guy to supervise him, and some guy there doing the work. If you ever want to see two people take eight hours to do a very, very simple task, just come watch me set up a trade show, because you'll see two people take as long as humanly impossible to do something they literally do every day. It's insane.

My point was more like, you hear about these insane union requirements, and you go like, "Why is that a requirement?" It just was a bargaining chip. Someone needed to get a win on the board, and so they threw in, the color of the boxes have to be orange just to get a win, to make it hard to do it right, to give them more leeway to be a pain in the ass or vice versa. It's crazy.

[00:38:36] Tyson: I went to school with people that absolutely love LR, labor relations, and all that negotiating, the tactics and that sort of thing, is like, it's very interesting. You can get PhDs in all those tactics that you're talking about, I think. [chuckles]

[00:38:54] Alexa: I think that's just fascinating. We'll definitely get someone on to talk about that, but while we have your mom here, who is an expert on the other side, what other things, Connie, are actually like pluses? What about this kind of work do you really like?

[00:39:06] Connie: No, we're not talking about union anymore, we're just talking about my job in general?

[00:39:10] Alexa: We're just talking to mom at this point.

[laughter]

[00:39:12] Connie: I like a lot about my job. What I really like is the interaction I have with the managers. They come to me, they take a look at their their org charts, and they want to make a change, so we discuss what changes they want to make. We discuss what positions they need, what positions they don't need. I just like that interaction, whether it's position management, whether it's to talk about an issue with an employee, whether it's to talk about a policy, whether it's to talk about the collective agreement and banter back and forth, because collective agreements are very hard to interpret, and that's for a reason.

[00:39:50] Tyson: Nothing better than bantering back and forth with the client.

[00:39:52] Alexa: I was going to say, that works in both everyone's favor and no one's favorite at the time, but it's hard

[00:39:58] Connie: Exactly. I really like that. HR is people. It's human resources. We're dealing with people all the time, and that's the part I love about HR. I don't like reports. I think reports are useless, for lack of a better term, because we do all these reports, but for what? Who looks at the data at the end of the report? What are we doing with that data? I just think they are a waste of time.

[00:40:24] Tyson: You have to do three different reports with the same information in different spots. That's what I hate about reports.

[00:40:31] Connie: Yes. At the end of the day, what are they doing with the information? Nothing. Let's run these reports for the last year about, I don't know, whatever they want to run their report about. It's like, "Okay, I've run the report. Here you go," and then nothing happens. I don't like the analytics behind it. I don't like reports. I don't think there's any value to running reports. I just like the people interaction.

[00:40:56] Alexa: Just go off the cuff. You just go off your gut feel, Connie?

[00:40:59] Connie: Yes, I do. After all these years, and where I'm at in my career, I've earned that, right?

[00:41:06] Alexa: You have earned that, and speaking of earning it, what's the craziest you've ever seen? What's the stuff that you like both love and are like, "I can't believe I saw that go down in my 35 years of doing this?"

[00:41:17] Connie: Oh, gosh. There's probably been many of those situations.

[00:41:24] Alexa: I couldn't imagine. The ones you're allowed to talk about?

[00:41:26] Connie: Yes. Let me think about one. I've seen so many crazy things, not in the past couple of years, because we've been working from home. I haven't really seen a lot of crazy stuff. Back in the office, my colleagues and I would talk daily about silly stuff we've seen. Let me think, is there's something really crazy that I--

[00:41:50] Tyson: Tell the story about the firefighter.

[00:41:52] Connie: Okay. This is a funny story. Maybe a bit sad.

[00:41:57] Alexa: September 26th. Oh, that's lumberjacks. Never mind.

[00:42:01] Connie: Back in the day I supported the fire department, and paramedics, and bylaw, and every two years we do a big recruitment for firefighters, and we get a lot of applications.

[00:42:15] Alexa: Full-time firefighters or volunteer firefighters?

[00:42:18] Connie: Full-time firefighters. We get a lot of interest in the fire department at the firefighter campaign, and we do a lot of strategic-- We go out in the community because we're trying to recruit visible minorities or women.

[00:42:35] Alexa: Strong, badass humans.

[00:42:37] Connie: Exactly. It's a huge very political campaign we do at the City. I don't do it anymore, but back in the day I did it. For a number of years, I supported the campaign. You'd get calls every day from people, "I want to apply to the campaign, what do I need, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." We had the campaign open for one month. For one month every two years. Now, it might have changed, but back then, they submitted their application. They went through the program. I got a call one day from an individual that was really gung-ho about being a firefighter. He's wanted to be a firefighter all his life. He's heard that the campaign is up and running, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but he's blind.

[00:43:22] Alexa: Okay.

[00:43:23] Connie: He's blind. I kid you not.

[00:43:27] Alexa: My face just now is why the video is an important part-- [crosstalk]

[00:43:31] Tyson: Make everybody watch the YouTube at this point.

[00:43:36] Connie: I just thought, "Oh."

[00:43:36] Alexa: No poker face. I got nothing.

[00:43:40] Connie: I thought, "Oh, goodness." My first reaction was, is this one of my friends trying to pay a dumb joke on me? Because I had a lot of friends that did that, but it wasn't. It was a person that had wanted to be a firefighter since he was a little boy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but he was legally blind. Could we accommodate him? I'm like, "Oh, my goodness, well, no, we can't accommodate." I didn't say that. What I did say was, "Well, I'm not going to make that decision for you, but I'm going to be sending you the vision requirements that you need to have for a firefighter.

I'll send you all the medical requirements that we need, and you take that to your doctor, and you guys determine if you can apply. I'm not going to tell you not to apply," but that's a true story. I tell that story to a lot of my younger friends who are coming up in HR, we talk about our funny stories. That was probably one of the-- Not one of the crazy stories, but one of the, I don't know if it was funny, if it was sad, because, clearly, he could not be a firefighter. He's legally blind.

[00:44:46] Alexa: My first response was like, can he be the guy that like runs the firehouse or something? Can he be close enough but not put himself in physical danger, because that dude's committed. You're going to get good work out of that guy.

[00:44:58] Connie: Yes.

[00:45:00] Tyson: It's just hard.

[00:45:00] Alexa: You did that right thing.

[00:45:01] Tyson: That is just such an obvious bona fide requirement. We call them in Ontario, BFORs or BFOQs, like Bona Fide Occupational Requirement.

[00:45:09] Connie: We call them that too.

[00:45:14] Alexa: There's lots of professions that have those, right, but you can't be a Navy Seal if you've [unintelligible 00:45:17] you can't do.

[crosstalk]

[00:45:20] Alexa: You need to be able to drive. You need to have your DZ license.

[00:45:23] Tyson: You know what, another funny story that you told me that I'm thinking about like going back to fire, was there was a firefighter who needed like an accommodation because, like they couldn't follow direction.

[00:45:34] Connie: Oh, yes. Oh, I've got a lot of those stories. [laugh]

[00:45:39] Alexa: Now we'd like opened Pandora's box.

[00:45:42] Connie: Right.

[00:45:46] Alexa: [unintelligible 00:45:46] a glass of wine. Let's see what happens.

[00:45:47] Connie: Yes, exactly. Now, the process has changed since I did it, but back in the day, part of the process when we were doing our campaign was they had to write an exam. That was the first part of the process. So, you wrote an exam, and if you didn't pass the exam, you didn't go further in the process. That was it. In this day of accommodations, we have to accommodate people to write exams, right? A couple of people came to me, and they had a lot of requests. They had to have a quiet spot. They had to have no natural light. They had to have more time. They had to use a calculator. They couldn't have flickering lights, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What was the one in particular test?

[00:46:31] Alexa: This one, I think the guy was maybe on the job already, but he had an accommodation because he was a firefighter, but he couldn't follow direction.

[00:46:40] Connie: He couldn't follow direction. Yes.

[00:46:41] Alexa: He couldn't follow direction from his superior.

[00:46:44] Connie: Like, "Go right at the light, then go two blocks, go left?"

[00:46:47] Alexa: No, like, "Get your ass out of the fire now because it's gonna burn down."

[00:46:51] Connie: Yes. Right. As a young firefighter, your career is based on instruction. Right?

[00:46:59] Tyson: It's still hierarchical?

[00:46:59] Alexa: That's literally someone like being like, "I need an accommodation because I can't understand what you're going to tell me in the future." That's literally what that is.

[00:47:11] Connie: That fellow needed an accommodation before he was hired, he needed an accommodation, and he needed to be in a room by himself, because when we did the exam, there was like 500 people in an arena.

[00:47:25] Alexa: It's like your Psych 101 exam.

[00:47:28] Connie: A few people had to be by themselves because they couldn't be distracted by others. They needed to be focused, and we're thinking, "Holy shit, you're not going to be in a fire hall by yourself. There's going to be a lot of distractions." This guy couldn't take direction. It's like, your whole career as a firefighter, you're going to take directions. As soon as those bells go off, you're taking directions.

[00:47:50] Alexa: That's like probably an interview question, like, "Tell me about a time where you followed direction." "Sorry. I can't follow direction." Like, "What?"

[00:47:57] Connie: Anyways, he ended up being hired.

[00:47:59] Alexa: I just don't understand how that's even a thing you can claim. How can you claim? It just means I'm unteachable. Like, I'm what? How can you claim that.

[00:48:09] Connie: One guy had to have his-- Anything that was written had to be on a special color of paper. This guy was really interesting. He couldn't deal with flickering lights, and it's like, "Wow, you're going to go into a fire. Flames are flickering lights. Like really?"

[00:48:28] Alexa: Even his lack of self-awareness is astounding.

[00:48:32] Connie: Fire is very competitive. I don't know how it is in the States. In Canada, especially in Ontario, people will do anything they can to get on the fire department. They'll write the exam in multiple different cities.

[00:48:49] Connie: Multiple times.

[00:48:49] Tyson: All different times. It's like very, very competitive. I feel like it was fire also that you would always get calls from like people's parents.

[00:48:57] Connie: Oh, yes. Or wives,

[00:49:00] Alexa: Please hire my son.

[00:49:02] Connie: Yes. That was a very interesting part. I really enjoyed that, but I'm happy it's behind me. It was very political. We would get counselors calling saying, "I understand that so and so didn't pass the exam. Why not?"

[00:49:17] Alexa: Probably lots of dads that are firefighters. They're probably the worst.

[00:49:21] Connie: Lots of dads that are firefighters called.

[00:49:23] Alexa: Love that. A Lot of legacy was going on there. I like it. I'm sure. I guess that's the kind of stuff people don't think about that as like City labor, and they're not just all a bunch of hunks that make calendars, like they're union employees. Which is fascinating. Speaking of fascinating, since I have both mother and daughter here, I have two generations of HR and people ops in front of me. I have to ask before we go, and this might be a fucked up way to ask this, so I apologize, but I can't listen to the two of you next to each other and not be curious. What are the things that you guys see differently, or have a different take on, and what are the things that you guys were in violent agreement on? What are the things that if you were sitting at the dinner table, you'd be like, "Mom, I'm not sure I'd buy that one anymore." Or you would be like, "Yes, Tyson, we still do it that way. You should still do it that way. It's always the right way." What do you guys see as the pros and cons of being two different generations in the same profession?

[00:50:25] Tyson: I feel like although I repeatedly bash things like on this podcast, like culture, and engagement, and things like that, I'm probably more on the pro side to the warm and fuzzy things. Like the team building.

[00:50:44] Connie: Oh, yes.

[00:50:46] Tyson: Stuff like creating a strong employment brand with a cool culture, I'm definitely more on that side of things. Attracting cool people and stuff like that, it just makes me oozing millennial, it's coming out of my pores right now, but I definitely think that I'm probably more pro team building.

[00:51:12] Connie: That's because you're still enthusiastic, because you're still young in the workplace. I've been at this for a long time.

[00:51:17] Alexa: It's like you're not jaded yet.

[00:51:19] Connie: Exactly. She's not jaded yet. The team building things, no, not for me. They were back in the day, but now, no.

[00:51:28] Alexa: Yes.

[00:51:29] Connie: Let's go rock climbing.

[00:51:31] Alexa: People regress.

[00:51:32] Connie: What's that?

[00:51:33] Alexa: I said people all eventually regress. Just go back to the mean of like, "Eh, people."

[00:51:38] Connie: Yes.

[00:51:40] Tyson: Then I think where we agree is definitely in our approach. I've been at your house while you're on the phone with a manager, and I think we have very, very, very similar partnership styles. Becoming very close with the managers we work with. Talking, like dropping the odd at firm when you're working with a manager, because you are building rapport, you're building trust, and having serious trust with the manager, and a good rapport.

We have very similar styles. We just tell it like it is when we're talking to clients. We don't sugarcoat shit, and I've even heard you do this. If an HR thing is shitty, but we're the face of it, we don't have a problem being, "Look, I know that this is not the ideal situation, we got to do it, let me help you through it." We don't have an issue having that straight talk. I think that would be what we agree on.

[00:52:41] Alexa: I love that. Now I know where you get it, Tyson.

[00:52:44] Tyson: Straight shooter, for sure.

[00:52:45] Alexa: Any things that you would say, Connie, to Tyson to avoid getting jaded by this industry? Any advice you would give our people ops pros about how to maybe keep your head on straight in this one?

[00:52:58] Connie: I would say, one of the biggest pieces of advice is, don't take shit personally, and that goes in a lot of jobs, but we take a lot of crap in HR, and if we took it personally, we--

[00:53:10] Alexa: The most, I would argue. I think you take the most crap in HR.

[00:53:14] Connie: We do, and only because we're the point of contact. They're not really pissed off at us, they're pissed off at something, but they call us to fix it, and I think one of the biggest things is, don't take things personally, because if you do, you will open yourself up for a world of hurt, and a lifetime of therapy, like just, it's true.

[00:53:37] Alexa: This is good life advice in general, Ty.

[00:53:40] Connie: Exactly.

[00:53:40] Alexa: Don't shit take personally.

[00:53:41] Connie: Don't take shit. Now sometimes it's hard not to, like if you build this relationship with a certain person, whether it be an employee or a manager, it's hard not to take things personally, but you really have to try not to, because, at the end of the day you're doing your job. You go home at the end of the day, that shit stays behind you, and tomorrow is a new day.

[00:53:59] Tyson: We're not saving babies.

[00:54:01] Connie: We're not saving lives, and we're not curing cancer. That's my big thing. We're not curing cancer.

[00:54:06] Alexa: Nobody is getting a statue in bronze in a park anytime soon, so everybody should just relax, not take stuff so seriously.

[00:54:11] Tyson: That's actually my life goal, so I will disagree with you on that one.

[00:54:15] Alexa: Bronze statue. Now I know. Anything happens.

[00:54:19] Tyson: There will be an HR sheikh monument one day.

[00:54:22] Alexa: We have to use the excess people problem fund as the slush fund for a bronze Tyson monument.

[laughter]

[00:54:33] Alexa: I love that, somewhere in random random country Canada that you live, just a big bronze, Tyson.

[00:54:38] Tyson: In my neighborhood, yes. That'd be awesome.

[00:54:41] Alexa: Yes, it'd be a real eyes sore, I'm sure. All right, Tyson, you got a people problem for us this week?

[music]

[00:54:58] Tyson: That was actually kind of it. The question specifically was, how do you stay sane being an HR consultant, an HR partner? The question was, how do you stay sane? I think you started, like, don't take things personally.

[00:55:13] Connie: Rely on your colleagues. If you have a really crazy situation that you either can't deal with or you're struggling with, reach out to your colleagues, because they may have had the same situation, or just talk to them about it. Like, "This is what happened to me," and you just talk it through. Don't take things personally, and rely on your colleagues.

[00:55:34] Tyson: You're so good at that too. You're a really good example of an HR person that has their payroll person, has their admin person. You have that really good network, that's actually-

[00:55:46] Connie: Like a counsel.

[00:55:48] Alexa: -really, really good advice for someone who's in an HR generalist position, is to have your people throughout the organization, keep them close. The people that are going to give you an answer quickly, and confidently, keep those people close, and build that network. It's super important.

[00:56:02] Tyson: Yes. I've done that.

[00:56:04] Alexa: I would argue, that's what people emphasize, but I would argue that they don't have to be at your organization. You just have to have a couple of those people on speed dial, your top person, your whatever person.

[00:56:15] Tyson: Someone who knows their shit, definitely.

[00:56:18] Alexa: Exactly. Awesome. Well, that's fantastic advice. Tyson, any parting words for mom before we wrap it up here?

[00:56:27] Tyson: I don't know, just thank you for influencing my career.

[00:56:33] Alexa: Thank you for influencing her career, Connie. I wouldn't be here with her. Tyson and the co-host.

[00:56:39] Connie: At one point she thought HR was crazy, like, "Oh my God, HR. Blah, blah, blah. I'll never do that. I'm going to be never this."

[00:56:47] Alexa: I could see how someone, especially a younger, maybe teenage female could think that. Two, I think a lot of people who get into this profession think that initially, and then they go, "Oh, wait a minute, I get it now. I finally get it now." [crosstalk] of this with misconceptions, just a little bit.

[00:57:02] Connie: I think, for most people that are in HR, they're very passionate about HR. I think it has to be otherwise you'd burn out. I don't know anybody in my world, my HR world, that doesn't really like their job. There's days where they just want to go, "Oh, my God, what the hell am I doing?"

[00:57:22] Alexa: Then they go back for more.

[00:57:24] Connie: Exactly. Every day, something different. Every day is a whole new ballgame. It's like, "What am I in for today?"

[00:57:32] Alexa: Connie likes the drama, I can tell. She likes the drama. That's where you get your love of dramatized. She's like, "Oh, yes." [crosstalk] Connie is over there in the HR department with popcorn. It is what makes it interesting. That is definitely what makes it interesting. Connie, thank you so much for being here. It was awesome to meet you, a true pleasure. Thanks for keeping Tyson in line. I can't thank you enough for your time.

[00:58:01] Connie: Oh, it's been my pleasure. Thanks. This has been great. Thank you. Nice to meet you too. I've heard so much about you.

[00:58:08] Alexa: Good things, I hope.

[00:58:09] Connie: Oh, yes, sort of.

[00:58:11] Tyson: Mostly.

[00:58:12] Connie: Yes.

[00:58:13] Speaker 2: Wait a minute. Before you leave, take some time to leave us a five-star rating. We'd really love your feedback. Also, if you'd like to see our lovely faces each week as we're recording these episodes, check us out on our new YouTube channel. Thanks.

[00:58:24] Alexa: This episode was executive produced by me, Alexa Baggio, with audio production by Ellie Brigida of Clear Harmonies. Our intro music was also done by the wonderful Ellie Brigida of Clear Harmonies. You can find more information about us and future episodes--

#HRtok #humorousresources #hrtiktok #careertok #hr #humanresources #employeecheckin #hrlife #peopleoperations #peopleops #peopleoperations #work #worklife #remotework #notHR

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