You’ve seen their memes, and you’ve loved them… This week Tyson & Alexa sit down with the dynamic duo behind @SurfingCorporate, Aileen Marciel and Glenda Pacanins, to discuss their long climb from corporate SVPs to creating the hilarious @surfingcorporate brand. They discuss their corporate journey, their experiences working outside the US, their best and worst interactions with HR, and their takeaways about Corporate America all with their trademark sense of humor. Saddle up.Want more? Listen to Tyson & Alexa on Surfing Corporate’s Season 3 debut episode anywhere you listen to podcasts!
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Alexa
Tyson.
Tyson
Hey, what's up, man?
Alexa
What's going on?
Tyson
Not too much. Just same old, same old.
Alexa
Honestly, you're not. You're not allowed to say that anymore. I'm shunning you. What is your morning routine? That's what I want to know. I'm trying to be so sorry. I know you hate. You hate. What is it?
Tyson
Ice breakers.
Alexa
Ice cream and ice breakers. I'm going to start every episode with an ice breaker now.
Tyson
All right. Okay.
Alexa
All right. Clearly.
Tyson
I know. I know. I'm so. And this is just going to be not the content that you're looking for. Look, so my morning routine is. Is is not that exciting. I have as everyone knows, I have almost a one and a half year old, and she sleeps in the bed with us. Feel so my morning routine is trying to sneak out of the bed without waking her up and she's taking a liking to sleeping on my pillow.
Tyson
I sleep with a silk pillowcase and girlfriend loves it. Like she just wants to get right up on there.
Alexa
So ignorant non mom question because I do. Okay.
Tyson
Mm hmm.
Alexa
Is it is is the baby sleeping in the bed like one of those controversial.
Tyson
100%?
Alexa
Oh, yeah. And just for my own. My own entertainment. Purely. What are that? What is the controversy? Like, I'm sure that's one of those issues. Like I said, as you said it, I was like, people have strong opinions about that. So, like, really quick.
Tyson
Sure.
Alexa
So why do I want to do it.
Tyson
In in North America? We feel as though we need to isolate our babies into rooms by themselves and let them cry until they go to sleep. Right. Me and my husband made a very early decision that that wasn't for us and that we were very pro baby co-sleeping with us. She's co-sleep, but that's pretty much her entire life.
Tyson
I'm also still nursing, so from that perspective, it's real easy for me to just like whip it out in the night when she's like fussing around and I don't have to, like, get up and like, rock her back to sleep. So between, like, me being a lazy mom who doesn't want to get out of bed in the middle of the night, and also just like for us personally, like we felt it was the right decision for our family.
Tyson
We've got a nice big bed. It's very cozy in there. So for us it just it worked. But there's a lot of like controversy because people feel like you should sleep, train or that it's not safe. But as long as you're doing it safely and like there are ways to do it safely, then it, it it actually is like in every other like culture.
Tyson
I feel like it's a.
Alexa
Very, very normal. Leave it to Americans to, like, take something that we've been doing for centuries, totally normal and make everyone feel bad.
Tyson
Like they're doing 100%. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And look, my.
Alexa
Ex's mom was Kenyan, and I have a few friends that have had kids recently. And I remember she was talking to one of my friends and I mean, she's like, she's from rural Kenya, like mud hut Kenya, like, not like there's no like it's just like what the tribe does is what the tribe does kind of thing. And she was like, I don't know why Americans feel the need to, like, throw their kids in another room and let them cry like every civilization on the planet has left.
Alexa
They're like, when the kid cries, you go to it. When it stops crying, you leave it alone. And nobody has 27 year old sleeping in bed with mom and dad, like.
Tyson
Yeah, I like you put it like that. It really just depends on the family and like, what works for them. Like, I'm not going to judge either way, Like I am like, not about shaming my parents for our.
Alexa
Shit out in my crib.
Tyson
Oh, totally, totally. Not me. I gladly just slept at any point in time anywhere. Any time. I still abide by that rule. I am a very sleepy human, so don't worry about me crying it out. I will just go right right to sleep. Okay. But anyways, back to my morning routine. So my husband is still off with the baby.
Tyson
He's on paternal parental leave again. Canadians, we get all sorts of time off. So he's on parental leave. He stays with her. I get up, I sneak out. Sometimes she wakes up with me, in which case I bring her downstairs. Then we get the coffee. The coffee's already made. It's very important to me to set my coffee the night before so that I hear, like, when I'm lying in bed, I hear, like, beep.
Tyson
And I just, like, I. There's. There's nothing. Actually, my husband does it. But anyways, there is nothing better than that.
Alexa
One of.
Tyson
Those hearing the sound of your coffee machine going.
Aileen
Up anyhow.
Tyson
So from there I don't drink my coffee first. Okay, hold up, hold up here. It's like a major hack. Athletic greens AG one. I am not.
Alexa
Going to wear one. We are not sponsored.
Tyson
By not sponsored that.
Alexa
Big a deal.
Tyson
Totally open to it because they pretty much sponsor everybody else like Tim Ferriss and everybody else. But it actually is legit, I swear by it. I have just noticed like huge differences in just my ability to be a human. So I'm a typical millennial who thinks that green powder is going to fix my entire life. So I found the 81 an empty stomach.
Tyson
Then I drink like eight liters of coffee and I don't do anything else. I just I try to, like, sit until I have to, like, mosey into my my home office. I work from home, right? So I'm not like, really getting ready to.
Alexa
Do anything that you like. I'm sitting at my desk.
Tyson
No, I don't. I'm like, real laissez faire about that. Usually I, I sort of dip a toe in with slack on my phone to start, you know, I'm just like, sipping my coffee on the couch, chilling. It really just depends on what my daughter's doing. And then yeah, then I just like, get to work and I usually work a little bit and then I come down for more coffee.
Tyson
And at that time I usually try to eat something, to eat something after I have friggin like vibrated, you know, because I'm on so much. 81 and caffeine and caffeine.
Alexa
Yeah.
Tyson
Yeah. So that's, that's my typical routine. It's not that exciting. I'm going to ask you about yours, but I can I can take a guess that it probably involves running with a lot of heavy weights on your back.
Alexa
I love it. You think I'm like chocolate cake or something? Yeah. No, no, it does. I wish it did. I'm not. I'm not that militant, though. Um, so my. Well, let's. I'm going to talk ideals because this never happens perfectly the way that I would like it to every day. I am not a creature of habit. In fact, in some ways I loathe habit.
Alexa
It makes me very agitated when I'm doing the same thing all the time. That or I just have undiagnosed A.D.D.. It could be maybe a little bit of both. Um, perfect. Perfect day for me is wake up, make coffee. I don't do anything before caffeine like I am. Every meme you've ever seen about does not function without caffeine like that.
Alexa
So I have, like, the first thing I do is make coffee. And then I actually usually read for like 30 to 45 minutes in the morning because I know it's more normal to read at night. But by the end of my days, like my brain is fucking fried and work like reading feels like working, it's something I'm like really into.
Alexa
So I try to read in the morning because it's one of the only times I can really I feel like take a minute and ingest the information and enjoy it. And I read much faster in the morning, blah, blah, blah. And then I try to do like 10 minutes of meditation. I'm trying to add 10 minutes of Spanish vocabulary practice every day.
Alexa
But I've been nice with in on that pretty hard, probably averaging like two of seven days a week on that one. Um, and then, um, I usually try to go work out after that. So I will try to get, I usually work out five or six days a week, some combination right now of running or CrossFit, but just depends on their immune.
Tyson
Response and exactly what.
Alexa
Their job. I don't eat in the morning. I intermittent fasting. Not intentionally. I just have always been that way. And then everyone was like, Oh, intermittent fasting. I was like, You mean skipping breakfast? I've done that. No, not intentionally. I just don't. My stomach is not great in the morning. It needs a minute. It might be all the black coffee, like I drink black coffee and I drink probably four cups of it before I'm a functional human.
Alexa
It's a disgusting habit. I do it to my ears. No moderation in my coffee habit whatsoever. At one point I was using for Stigmatic like the Oh yeah, mushroom coffee, which I have. Obviously it's much harder to get on the road. I'm not going to be that asshole that carries my coffee grinds around the world. I know, I know some people that have done it and and then whatever I'm doing, I try to at the very latest, be at my desk by 930, like dressed and ready to go.
Alexa
Sometimes it's a little earlier for meetings like tomorrow morning. I have a meeting at 7 a.m. just because of time zones and other things. And some days it's a little later because something came up. But I am pretty militant about like you got to get dressed for the day and you got to you want to set a boundary to like be at your desk as a remote worker.
Alexa
That's always been kind of a line for me. So that's my perfect morning. You know, I'd love to skip the workout and just have guns and look great in a bathing suit without working out. I just pray that 45 minutes of reading and a lot more coffee, but say, let me. That's it. And I can't wait to ask our guests the same question.
Alexa
So, see, it's so much more interesting when we give you an icebreaker. Tyson I've learned that you you the Rosie sleeps in the bed and you like coffee like me. See, that's the whole point of this silliness. All right. So without further ado, I'm going to go ahead and introduce our guests because we're very excited that they're here today.
Alexa
All right. Our guests today are the incredible duo behind one of our favorite accounts, which is at surfing Corporate. Tyson, I know you're a big surfing corporate fan. Our listeners have definitely seen the hilarious names that they post on social media that we are constantly reposting. And first and foremost, we have Aileen Aileen's climb up to the corporate ladder was an unconventional She grew up in Caracas, Venezuela, where she had a successful career as a creative director for cable television networks.
Alexa
In 2007, she moved to Mexico, where I currently am escaping from the increasing political and social tensions of Venezuela. Her time in Mexico, as head of content and executive producer, led to a 2013 move to Miami, and a short gig turned into a full time role as an SVP by 2017, however, burnout and life threatening surgery led Aileen to create surfing, corporate help, surfing, corporate to help others who are navigating tricky corporate waters and to ignite conversations about how we can all, both employees and employers contribute to making the work, making work better, more human, more purposeful and more fucking enjoyable.
Alexa
And her counterpart is Glenn. Doug Linda's journey Corporate Journey began 25 years ago in media. She climbed the ladder from intern to SVP. Currently, Glenda works as a partner and executive producer at No Status Quo Studios, a production studio focused on premium content featuring the Latin sensibility for global audiences, all while balancing her generous involvement in nonprofits focused on fostering women's professional development and youth empowerment.
Alexa
And we can't forget to say wife and surviving mother of two teenage daughters and a dog and is a self-described recovering suits. Glenda is now surfing corporates Voice of Reason and podcast co-host. What's up, ladies?
Glenda
Hey there.
Aileen
Oh, well, some.
Alexa
People thought.
Glenda
That was so cool. That was like my bio on 1.5 speed. That was awesome. Yes.
Alexa
Thanks. So everyone, everyone listening to this is going to tell me to slow the fuck down. Great.
Aileen
That's my machine. So yeah, I see you.
Alexa
Slow to me. Yeah.
Glenda
No, we're Latino. We talk fast, so we're obviously talking.
Tyson
They've all got us on 1.5 speed anyways. Exactly.
Alexa
Exactly. They're just like, Fuck this part. I always skip the part where they talk about how.
Glenda
They skipped ahead. Yeah, I love that part. I love the part. And talking bullshit. I love it. I love shooting. This is great.
Alexa
Yeah, that's. That's like 40% of what a podcast is. I love it. So. So are you both in Miami currently?
Aileen
No.
Alexa
I mean.
Aileen
We used to be. I am used to. I used to live in Miami. I moved two years ago to San Francisco, where actually Mill Valley is right north from San Francisco. But yes, living the California dream.
Glenda
I am in Miami. I am a miami native, as close to a miami native as you can get. I wasn't born here, but I've been here since the age of five. So still here, raising my own family here. So I'm a miami girl through and through.
Alexa
Nice. I like Miami. I wish it was less expensive. Thanks to another thing COVID ruined.
Aileen
Me.
Alexa
About. All right, so I'm curious before we start talking shop here about your morning routines, Glenda, you're a native, so let's start with you. What is your what's your morning routine? Let's let's let's go with your ideal morning routine.
Glenda
So the ideal morning routine, I think, is a combination of yours and Tyson's, because in my ideal world, I definitely want to be.
Alexa
What's missing from my breastfeeding or not.
Glenda
You know, the cuddle time with the baby. I don't have babies anymore. Mine is 18, minor, 18 and 14. So those days are long gone for me. But my puppy is now my cuddle buddy, so believe it or not, it's so crazy. And I just realized this just a couple weeks ago. Like if I don't have just a few minutes, maybe even 5 minutes of just playing with my dog and having the oxytocin going off in my brain early in the morning, I don't start my day off.
Glenda
Great. Is that like, cheesy to say?
Alexa
No, no.
Glenda
I'm just it's it's it's it's weird. And my daughters will probably kill me if I say this. It's not like my puppy has taken over the void that they left when they grew up and became like really moody teenagers. But he has so much besides.
Alexa
End of dog. Do you have.
Glenda
He's a having he's he's like a tiny little toy breed. Really? Oh, my God. So many people haven't even heard of the breed. But he's like, amazing. And don't even get me started because I will go off on a tangent. What's it for you guys? Loki. Loki, the dog of mischief. My oldest daughter named him that because. Yeah, and he lives up to his name.
Tyson
Like Bucky is in Avengers.
Glenda
Loki Yes. Loki. Well, you know, Loki is the God of mischief. So my daughter wanted to be quirky and funny, and she said, Love the dog of mischief, and he lives up to his name. But anyway, other than cuddling and playtime with Loki, what I would love to do more is be a lot more disciplined in my health routine.
Glenda
I don't do coffee first thing in the morning anymore because let's just say I'm a little older than you girls are. And what I realize is we.
Alexa
Don't talk about age on people.
Glenda
Like you. Okay, well, my age myself, there, there I go. If I have coffee first thing in the morning without anything else, not even a cup of water like the the like my heart rate just shoots up and I just get the jitters really bad.
Alexa
So that's just like the frequency I exist on. And I have just forgotten that it's the caffeine. Maybe so much of it.
Glenda
I know, but it you know what's crazy? I have to have it between a really tight window so I can't have it first thing in the morning, but I have to have it before ten, 10:30 a.m., because if not, then the caffeine migraine kicks in and then that really sucks. So yeah, coffee's in there.
Alexa
Off, off of caffeine is.
Glenda
No, no, no, no. It's no joke. It's no joke. But what I really try to do is, you know, I really wish I was a little bit more disciplined, but on an ideal morning, I go online, get good 40, 45 minute walk where I listen to my favorite podcasts, you guys included. And that's like sort of my me like Miami.
Glenda
Yeah, you can. I mean, honestly, really? Because it's nice. What I mean, tell me about it when I have to do it in July and it's like 95 degrees with 99% humidity. Yeah, it's terrible. But at least it's something that gives me a little bit of space to sort of plan out my day and just have a little bit of me time.
Glenda
So that to me would be the perfect morning.
Tyson
Mix your heart for a walk. I love it.
Glenda
I got a letter on a letter.
Tyson
There called.
Alexa
I love that. Do you do you take your coffee to go or you have it and then you walk, you know?
Glenda
No, no, I have a little bit. I go walking, then I come back and I have the rest of it, or I'll have it like I have a half a cup and then I'll come back and I'll have another cup or whatever.
Alexa
Nice. Nice. All right, Aileen, what's your what's your ideal morning routine over there in sunny California?
Aileen
Ideal. Not really a sick it's it's and I wish it were much more fascinating and interesting that I get up the first thing I do and this is horrible and something I need to work on. The first thing I do is I check Instagram and TikTok to get shared and curated for.
Alexa
So you do the thing that like every sleep and like stress expert in the world says.
Glenda
Not not.
Aileen
To.
Alexa
Stare at your phone.
Aileen
That is me. Because when you wake up on the West Coast, you're always behind. I feel like I'm in that. Yeah. So it's like I need to get this done or I'm going to miss everything. So like, I take 10 minutes to look at it. Okay, Now I know that I'm focusing on this, this and that. Then I get up and make breakfast for my kids.
Aileen
She's tan, make lunch for my kid, and then her dad takes her out the door and then I go for a walk. And I do think that this is really, really important. In my case, it just sets the energy level for the day because you always say, I'll do it later and then shit happens and then you don't do it later.
Aileen
Later doesn't happen. And that I want to morning. Yeah, that guarantees that at least you'll get something done and that and it makes me, it puts me in a better place. And I am fortunate to live, you know, in this area where the weather's nice and just being outside in nature is very helpful for me for not going crazy.
Aileen
And then I just get back to the office and the first thing I do is I have my whiteboard and I write down the immediate things that I have to get done and other key things because I do have ADHD. So my mind is mush. And if I don't have that thing like in front of me reminding me what I need to get done, I will look at whatever shiny object is anywhere near me and I completely forget about what I have to do.
Aileen
So those are kind of things that have have helped me. But yeah, that's how I end coffee. Yes, there is the first thing after thing in the middle of the day. Like I know I always jokes.
Alexa
I can do literally anything with a warm cup of coffee next to me, like I always am like, Oh, it's not the caffeine. Like, I just it's like the smell and the the heat and like.
Tyson
And the sound. It makes you feel sound. Love. It's like.
Alexa
My comfort. Like I can take on the world with a fresh cup of coffee.
Aileen
It's like, yes, I like.
Tyson
The sound that the wine, the red wine makes. You know how it makes like a glug glug that is like music to my ears.
Aileen
Adele.
Glenda
Can I ask you guys a question? What age did you start drinking coffee?
Alexa
Oh, this is a dark story. This is a dark story. I have been drinking coffee since I was like 11 or 12 years old because I thought it was cool. So I used to drink. I taught myself to drink coffee because I thought it looked cool.
Glenda
So did you did you watch that or who did you stand by?
Alexa
Both my parents drank it. I just thought it was like the cool thing to do. And so I would drink like I'm talking like 90%, half and half with a little bit of coke and, like, as much sugar as a child probably needs to give themselves diabetes. And I would drink that every day. And between the age of 11 and 32, I'm 35 now.
Alexa
So 32 I managed to completely reverse the ratio and take everything out of my coffee. And now I just saying.
Tyson
Okay, wait, so this is so funny. I was like a coffee fiend from a very young age and I used to like, try it like, I'm talking like, like in the single digits, like I was probably like eight or nine and I use it my, my mum was very strict about no coffee. I was not allowed to drink coffee.
Tyson
So I would find all of the things that had coffee in them. Coffee she didn't know. So I would be like, oh it's a French vanilla or like, Oh, it's one of those like free bottled Starbucks drinks that you can buy. I'm like, Oh yeah, I could get my hands on that. Or if I was at a friend's house and they got us like, We have something here called Tim Hortons in Canada and we get like ice caps and like I was.
Alexa
Famous, like Tim Hortons.
Tyson
Anyone, anyone who was willing to give me coffee, like I would just like, take our like, trick my dad. My dad is very easily bamboozled and like, trick him into getting me platinum with absolutely no coffee. But then what I saw how I got into, like drinking it regularly. I think I was 15 and it was before my first like one of my first high school exams and my mum would drink her coffee and have just a little tiny bit left in the pot.
Tyson
And I'd be like, Oh, if you're not gonna drink that, can I have that? So that's how it started. So I started just getting like the leftovers. And then finally, eventually she just started like I was like, she's like, okay, you're like 50 and 60 now. Like, she would just make me like, my, like, enough coffee to have, But, like, yeah, I was such a fiend.
Aileen
So we grew up in Latin America.
Glenda
Yeah, I'm Colombian.
Aileen
Wait, wait. At school like you would go to the counter and you would order your coffee? Yeah.
Glenda
For us growing up, cafe quality. Yeah. Cafe culture, coffee and milk. Like a cappuccino.
Alexa
That's a espresso. That's. That's like a whole different ball of wax than the shit.
Tyson
They used to say to.
Alexa
Us in Canada.
Tyson
My mum would be like, Oh, no, it's. It's going to stunt your growth. Okay, I'm 511.
Alexa
Yeah, You have nothing.
Tyson
I am very tall.
Alexa
She's very tall. That's amazing. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not a short person either. So I guess you know what I mean. You internet.
Glenda
Screwed.
Alexa
I think you guys are in school, so that's cultural. I figured out what it means when we were. When I grew up in, like, rural Pennsylvania. Right? There's not. There's nothing like we were the high school kids. I went to the mall because there was nothing fucking else to do, right? I went to the OR there was an amusement park, so was like you'd have like a season pass to the amusement park.
Alexa
There's no where else to hang out. And after swim practice, I was on a swim team. I remember this all the cool older kids got to go to the like Dunkin Donuts, which is our Tim Hortons, basically. Yeah, Poor man's Starbucks, if you will. And they you would like go hang out at the Dunkin Donuts and you get whatever those disgusting drinks are like coladas.
Alexa
And I'm sorry, people like those, they're delicious, but they're so bad for you. And so and it was like, if I got to go, like, if I had, like, you know, inbetween practices or something, I'd like, get to go hang out with the cool kids and, like, get a coffee colada. And all of those are I mean, they're basically desserts, but a bunch of coffee in it.
Alexa
So I was like, I have to learn to like coffee if I'm going to, like, order this, order these, like frappuccinos and shit all the time. How? I mean, I'm definitely to have Alzheimer's from all the Sweet'N Low, but how I, how I don't have diabetes, I guess because I was between sports practices. Yeah. So at least I was active.
Alexa
But yeah, this is disgusting habit but brought on entirely by cultural pressures.
Glenda
So at least you know the point. You pinpointed the beginning and now you're.
Alexa
I care what people think about me going to.
Glenda
Well, meeting this is like coffee confessions.
Alexa
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, more confessions because we want to talk more about you guys and your incredible journey to surfing corporate, which we're going to get to, but we're going to get we're going to meander our way.
Glenda
Love it. Love it.
Alexa
You both have what I think is slightly oppressive, but I'm also jealous of because I could never do it, which is storied careers in corporate America. Like here is. It should have been a very successful careers in corporate America. So, Aileen, I'm going to start with you. What is let's let's go through your corporate resumé. Everybody heard your bio at the top of the episode.
Alexa
But let's start for you, your corporate quote unquote, resume as you can describe it in three sentences. And I'm going to ask you a counter question after this. So I want you to be very literal.
Aileen
Three sentences. Yeah. I don't know if I could do three sentences, but if I could sum it up, it's basically I began as a copy producer for Television Network. Latin America was an edgy television network that was all humor driven and very, very politically incorrect, like MTV, Comedy Central, kind of I sliding on there. Then I would say a middle stepping film.
Aileen
I became an executive producer of shows that day. I did an animated adult comedy. I did a late night show and I did the franchise of America's Next Top model in Mexico. So I was looking for Mexico's Next Top model. And then I met Tyra Banks and then, like the third stage of that was as SVP of Creative and Marketing for a big network then in the U.S. So I'd always worked with corporate America indirectly.
Aileen
But the first time I was in a big corporation that was part of a bigger corporation, that was part of a bigger corporation, was here. And so there were lots of layers there.
Alexa
Yeah, got it. Okay. So started as like a creative producer type in Yes. TV and media world and eventually got sucked into the.
Aileen
Corporate into the corporate world ness.
Alexa
Got it. Okay. And now I want what I want is the counter story, which is if you could describe your career emotionally in three sentences like how would you tell your story? Not your resume, but like the thing, the quick journey emotionally that you've gone through as a professional.
Aileen
From the beginning of my career was I was just very fun. I think I was able to land in a little world that was very similar to myself, where being funny and saying weird shit, like for what we did for word in meetings, all of that was part of the brand that we we worked with and the brand internally.
Aileen
To listen to your episode on Brand that you guys made a couple of weeks ago, the brand of that company, what it portrayed towards the audience and how it worked internally was 100% aligned. It was 100% aligned. So every internal communication that we did for a party, for somebodys birthday, for anything you wanted, everything was in that voice of irreverence, of not giving a shit.
Aileen
It was just so much fun. We were all like, I don't know. I think the average age was 26. I was a very, very young group of people and we were doing stuff that was seen all over Latin America and nobody like I don't remember everybody, anybody saying no to a random, wacky idea that we would have. We just like did stuff.
Aileen
So that was like very intense work. Many, many hours of work. I loved what we what we did. We would work weekends. We were late into the evenings, but it didn't feel like I'm being exploited, like I loved every second that I invested in that company because we believed in the mission. We loved the leaders that were there and we just had a blast.
Aileen
I was young. I was single and was like, Well, now is the time to have fun and what we're doing.
Tyson
And it sounds like you had a crazy amount of autonomy.
Aileen
Yes, we had like I was the manager of a team of five at 24. It's like, what? And then that just keep on growing and growing and growing. So there was tremendous autonomy, tremendous freedom to do creative stuff that nobody was really supervising. And that was just, just a lot of fun.
Alexa
All right.
Aileen
Now then, then the next. And this was the longest time.
Alexa
I've ever heard.
Aileen
Okay, so.
Glenda
Run on sentence.
Aileen
So that was that was, you know, when I was like a more middle management. Then as you grow up corporate wise, you start taking on more and more responsibilities, you start doing less, you start doing less of the work, You're delegating, you're managing, you're managing emotions and people and bigger productions and bigger budget and things become less fun.
Aileen
They become important. It's part of your growth as a professional to be able to lead other people. I think letting go of you doing things was was really hard. But when you are the person inspiring other people to do awesome things, that was very fulfilling for me as well. Really hard. Because when you have a lot of creative people together, things aren't always easy because they are crazy and they are sometimes wild cards.
Aileen
But it was for me, it was fascinating to help other people.
Alexa
Creatives can be tough.
Aileen
Yes, creative can be tough. And then, you know, later on, when.
Alexa
I love them, I adore them. I Yeah.
Tyson
We all.
Aileen
Have them. Come on, man. That they can be challenging. Yes. Yes. Your emo child. But then later on, you know, when you grow to a higher and higher positions, things are even less fun. Especially again, if you have a background like mine where creativity and laughter and mess up stuff is like your bread and butter, when you're stuck in budget meetings and talking about panels on like about what is the projection of your five year rule and you're.
Alexa
So funny, I don't know what you're talking, my.
Aileen
God, so much. You know.
Tyson
It's so funny how like the workplace just, like, kills good talent with less shit. We promote the death out of people, and then it's just like we just kill every, every, like, ounce of passion that you have. We're just going to kill with panels.
Aileen
And it was really hard for me. It was really hard. I had a team that I loved and I knew that my role was making them be able to do the things that they wanted to do. And if you don't have a person in the leadership for your team fighting for and advocating for that team, things can get really bad.
Aileen
And especially in a marketing team, everybody, everybody has an opinion. Everybody thinks they can do marketing, everybody has an idea, everybody thinks this sucked. So if you're not the person putting some guardrails for that team, it can be extremely, extremely overwhelming and exasperating. So I understood that that was my role to fight for the team, fight for if there was a lack of pushback, if, you know, if they were asking for 500 things for tomorrow at 5:00.
Aileen
Now how about we do 100? But it just became much more of, yeah, management leadership, which is great for my soul. And it was kind of soul crushing because I didn't have as much as a creative outlet as I once had. And I really, really miss that. So I know that so few sentences.
Alexa
Three sentences to say started out really fun and creative with a ton of autonomy, got into management very early and was very successful and got exhausted by and beaten down by the.
Aileen
Yes juggernaut.
Alexa
At the time.
Glenda
Yeah. There you go. And you have the my PR now.
Alexa
Nobody wants that, I promise. I'm just not smart enough to use so many words. So. All right, Glenda, you're up. Let's see how well Glinda can follow you.
Glenda
My guide. Let me tell you, I was listening to Aileen, but also like, Holy shit, how am I going to do this in 3 minutes? Okay, I'll try. So you're like you said, Like you said, I live.
Alexa
I fucking try. She was fuck your prompt.
Glenda
So. Okay, so 25 years in media started as a production intern thinking that I wanted to be a producer my whole life because that seemed so fun and cool. And then I got into production for a daily morning show and the grind of doing a daily live morning show. I can't even begin to tell you how soul crushing that is.
Alexa
Can I stop you for like, a really ridiculous.
Glenda
Yes, Please.
Alexa
Please tell people what the role of a producer is.
Glenda
Well, it depends on the show. So in for like I've done different kinds of shows, but the producers, basically the one who puts everything together. So if you're working in a morning show, the producer has to get first pitch the idea for a segment, get it approved, then do all the research, look for a guest, make sure the guest is like super breeds, basically is the handler for the guest once they come on the show and does everything from making sure that the people in the control room know the right super to put on like like the right title, the right name, and keep the hosts informed of what what are you going to interview
Glenda
them about? What is the question? So basically putting everything together behind the scenes. Also back in the day, it included doing all the logistics for getting the talent there or the guest there. So if that's sending a limo, blah, blah, blah. Long story short, that completely killed any sort of motivation, I had to be on the production side proper for the rest of my career because getting up at 4:00 in the morning every single day was I'm not a morning person guy.
Glenda
So it's not like.
Alexa
Other people's.
Glenda
Should just and by the way, when you're producing a live morning show, you're on all the time. Your weekends are making sure that the guest you have booked for Monday are still coming. And if that something happened to the guest and you get a call Sunday night that that thing fell through, you have 6 minutes of time to fail on live TV the following day.
Glenda
Yeah. So it's like a run. So that lasted. I mean, it was a great experience because we launched that first morning show, which is still on the air, by the way. So you know, it was very gratifying to do it. But I knew very, very quickly on, I didn't even do it for a year because it was just killing me.
Glenda
And I decided that, no, I need to be in the business side of it. I need to be more on the strategic side because I would see the exact being, you know, walking into a meeting with their little notebooks and having a whole bunch of ideas. And then every all the other producers running, scrambling to jot down the ideas and then making it happen.
Glenda
I was like, No, I need to be the people making people make things happen. So luckily I had a mentor who put me on that path. Lo and behold, you know, cut to a few years later, I became so strategic planning director at that company. So I was able to oversee more of the business side. And as as anybody who knows me, knows I am a nerd at heart.
Glenda
I am the first to admit it. So I love to learn. I'm like, I could I could take courses every year to do something different. I will. So my manager at the time said, Hey, you would be great at for an MBA, why don't you go get your MBA? So I went to business school and I loved it.
Glenda
I ate that shit up because I love my brain. Just works in that way of life paid.
Aileen
For by the corporation.
Glenda
Right? I'm not fully, by the way, because that company that company only gave you like a very small percentage of your your tuition, but it was still worth it. So after that, layoffs happen. I left that company. I did my own consultancy thing, which was amazing, because then I got to fulfill my own thing, my own creativity, my own passions.
Glenda
I had five clients at one time and, you know, you guys know when you're an entrepreneur, you basically wear every single hat, you do all the marketing, you do all the billing, you do all the business development, you do everything. But I loved it. But then I got, you know, the proverbial offer. You can't refuse to go back into the corporate grind.
Glenda
And I did. I got a really great job working for a really great team. And, you know, I went in as a strategic person, you know, more on the entertainment side. And then 12, almost 11, 12 years later, I became senior vice president of entertainment and content working for a company that went through a lot of leadership changes, lots of strategic decisions and strategic pivots that led to lots of sleepless nights.
Glenda
And then I was. Yeah, right. Well, listen, I am all for the buzzwords, Alexa. I am. I am here for the five words she invented.
Aileen
Half of them.
Glenda
I mean, jokes that I do. I just, you know, it was just one of those things that came naturally to me for some reason. And then when I left that last corporate job, I decided, you know, 25 years in the corporate brain is enough. Let me do my own entrepreneurial thing. So now I am an independent producer. I also, as you said, I work as though I was the voice of reason within surfing corporate, the podcast and basically helping build the brand.
Glenda
And I'm also a strategic media consultant. So, you know, on any given day, what I'm focusing on on that day depends on what the priorities for that day. But it is exciting. It is fine, it's sometimes frustrating, but at least it's gratifying in that I'm doing something that at least for now, is motivating me. So that was that was more than three sentences.
Glenda
It's more than three sentences. Really shocking direction to you.
Alexa
Yeah, but we really need to work on your your ability to follow three.
Glenda
Sentences is really, really difficult. I have to work. It is. I have to work on that.
Alexa
Yeah. You both you both ignored by prompt that I love it. All right. We're going to take a quick break and we will be right back with I leave leaving Glenda from surfing corporate. And we are back with Aileen and Glenda talking about not their their storied careers into the media and entertainment business any longer. But I would like to talk a little bit about because you're probably the first guest, Tyson, correct me if I'm wrong here that I can think of that we have with like real sort of media backgrounds and and also backgrounds very specifically that not the first guest for this, but the first people that I think we've spoken to who
Alexa
have also a lot of experience outside of the United States, which is really interesting perspective. So I would love to hear from you both a little bit about sort of what your experience has been in the media industry. And if you think it's different than like quote unquote, corporate or other, you know, finance or, you know, pick another industry if it's like special in any ways or if there's things that make it different and what they might be.
Glenda
I mean, I can just start off by saying I haven't worked in any industry other than media, so it's hard for me to compare it to anything else. I mean, we certainly.
Aileen
Have we think we're special.
Glenda
I was going to get there. But yeah, I we you know, when you are in media, you think that when you work in media, it's one of these things and we talk about it now because now that we've been away from that side of our corporate careers for a long time, it's been a few years already. We can look back and say like, damn, those budgets, right?
Glenda
Those expense accounts, those perks that we and those are good now. And I think.
Aileen
The spending level and what is now legacy media, it's just a whole other world of how things work. And only when you leave that you're like, holy shit. Like that's how much we spend on a party for a client. It just doesn't register when you're outside of that world. So that was definitely very unique and we took it for granted.
Alexa
Yeah, well, it's one of the reasons I ask is because, I mean, like, it's not lost on me that we're really seeing our own podcast episode featuring us this week. And you're, you're releasing one featuring us like everyone is a fucking media brand now. Yes. It's like, like every like whether it's social media or LinkedIn or like there's all these new forms of media.
Alexa
Yes. Around social media platforms that are just how business gets done now. And it's like it's like micro media. So I'm so curious to hear how you guys feel about like, what's the difference and what's like the benefit maybe. I mean, obviously, besides just having a background in this that you can transition from like big corporate media into like, you know, a brand?
Aileen
Well, in my case specifically, and I started out in Caracas, Venezuela. So when you work in a third world country, there's like very limited resources compared to what you have here, right? So you have to learn to work with very little, very fast overdeliver. So you make it happen. You wear tons of hats. You have to chime in at any given time.
Aileen
So just give an example. I started out my career as a promo producer, right? So promos are, you know, the commercials for the TV's shows, for lack of a better explanation. And we were seven producers and there were only two stations to watch the shows. So you have to fight for being able to watch the show that you had to promote because there were seven of us, only two.
Aileen
So you had either get an early or, I don't know, poison the coffee of whoever was watching the show. Like you had to be really, really creative to be able to get shit done and then like later when.
Alexa
We put a lot of like AMC. Yeah.
Tyson
Now that strategy.
Aileen
Was strategy or, you know, Oh, I have this wonderful coffee for you waiting, have anything to get your job done.
Alexa
So if there are two stalls in the bathroom.
Aileen
And then there you go. So later when you know much later when we each had our own in a different company, like our own monitor, to be able to say, Oh, wow. And when you come to the US, it's like you have no idea. It's it's a constant survival mode that you have going on. Like I lived in Venezuela, so I was like, in Caracas is one of the most dangerous cities in the world.
Aileen
So just getting to work without having been, you know, held up at gunpoint or, I don't know, having my wallet robbed in the elevator, going to the office, which happened a lot. It just puts you in a different mode. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And another aspect and I don't know if I'm jumping Hanna this, but another fascinating aspect to me was the way H.R. functions in Latin America and here, at least in my experience, is so very different because you were not like you made it to work without, you know, a scratch.
Aileen
You're grateful you if you have an issue with a coworker with a boss at work, you would never go to your chances. See, somebody was mean like that, that there's just no there's no sense of you are. You are Yes. You're entitled to.
Alexa
Yeah. That you're entitled to.
Aileen
At.
Alexa
Is being protected.
Aileen
I'm not even entitled to getting through the it's like good luck if you're.
Alexa
Not around on my way here.
Aileen
No no.
Alexa
Question. Perspective, huh?
Aileen
That when I got to the U.S. because I got here later in life, like I got here in my thirties, just hearing these conversations of employees and H.R. talking about the idea, she felt uncomfortable with this one, you know, because of this word. And not like what? Like I. I do not understand what is. And and it's not to disparage that.
Aileen
I mean, it's it's culture, right? It's just my background because of where I come from. That would never I would never it would never even occur to me to say, oh, my God, like boss was me. And I had bosses that were me. Oh, yeah, but you just fix it with that person. You have a conversation and you so.
Alexa
So what? So what do you think? Like, what do you think is the big disconnect between that culture in the U.S.? Like, do you think it's just like, like, where do you think the entitlement comes from other than obviously we're not getting robbed at gunpoint as much.
Glenda
As.
Alexa
I think.
Aileen
That has a lot to like. I was also in a country where political unrest that was like a lot of, you know, liberties being taken away. So everything was so complex, heated, and there was so much real problems happening around you that you wouldn't see that as a problem. It's not a problem, I think as a whole.
Tyson
I think as a like North America, like we were like, yeah, we are. We are disconnected from that. Yeah.
Alexa
I'm a nomad is like, Major, fuck out of their bubble everywhere, right?
Aileen
Yeah.
Tyson
Like there are some things that are like, like we see we're all in social media here. Yeah. And we see these things viral and like, these things that come up and you're like, Are you serious? That is like the problem you're going to bring for us right now when like there are real problems out there and there is just such a disconnect.
Tyson
And I think even though there's so much more access to information, you know, we see everything. We know what's going on everywhere because of social media and pop up, it's getting worse still. Like I feel like even generationally, I'm seeing it getting more and more challenging from an H.R. perspective to for to be able to give somebody feedback.
Tyson
Yeah, we give somebody feedback. Next thing I know, they're going on a short term disability.
Glenda
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It really is. It really it's.
Tyson
Really.
Aileen
Bonkers.
Tyson
Absolutely rampant. And I'm like, what? I'm like, Is this like a company? Is this a world thing? And I think it's it's something that's happening like across all like, you know, not just like a specific industry anything. It's just it's happening across all industries at all levels. Like it's it's bizarre in Canada and U.S. at least.
Aileen
Yeah. I don't know how it's working nowadays, but I can just tell you from it, just when you don't have real I don't want to say that people here don't have real I live here now and I have real problems, too. But it's all a matter of perspective. I would be really, really is everything. Talking with a friend about work, having a conversation.
Aileen
So what are we going to do to with the team to and all of a sudden cut off from like what that? And then she would tell me, Yeah, that's when I was robbed. Like, you know, they knocked on the window of my car and stole my phone and say, Oh, okay, so when are you getting the new phone?
Aileen
It was just part of the daily the daily thing. So yeah, I just it's different perspectives. So, so somebody that comes from that reality when you know, political moments and social moments and criminal activity is like all over the place, you're just, I don't know, for us to.
Alexa
Work.
Aileen
And to have a job having to have a job that was a great, great job and just fixed up like I had issues with bosses and coworkers. You have a conversation, you talk it through and you know, yeah, Touch I lost art. Tai Shan If you felt like somebody had your feelings. Yeah. So yeah, it was. It's just a very different, I think, dynamic.
Aileen
Not better, not worse, just very, very different.
Alexa
And just like dealing with this shit you like you made.
Aileen
Yes.
Alexa
Your fucking issue with your accountability. You're. Yeah, figure it out.
Aileen
There's nobody there to fall back on and go to for help. I don't know, for good or bad, but that's how.
Alexa
Yeah. Yeah. Of What do you, what do you think about the sort of generational and.
Glenda
Oh my God. Well I mean Miami.
Alexa
Is not a noncompetitive environment. I mean it's.
Glenda
No, it's really competitive and. No, and you're and you're right. And as Tyson was saying, I do feel like there's this bubble thing, Like we actually had an episode last season where we had a panel of people from different generations. So we had people talking about, you know, we had a millennial, we had Gen Z and we had a Gen Xer and we talked about straight up that very topic because to me and like I said, I have two teenage daughters, I have Gen Zers in my house talking to them.
Glenda
Sometimes I feel like I'm walking on eggshells because I say the wrong term or I use the wrong phrase and it's like, Guys, trust me, it's not coming from a place of being an asshole. I'm not trying to be an asshole.
Alexa
Yeah, there's some really good dialog in White Lotus in the first.
Glenda
Oh yes, yes, yes, yes.
Alexa
Teenagers where like, the dynamic is so fucking good where she's like, such a boomer and there's such, there's such like Gen Z ers and it's incredible. It's so well written. It is. I imagine it be a little bit of your household.
Glenda
And it's crazy. And and trust me, I really make a really, like, really strong effort to try to get into their space and try to understand them and use the right phrasing and but I tell her, hey, give us some benefit of the doubt, give us some grace. Don't think that every old person out there is trying to purposely be prejudiced or malicious or mean or not understanding you.
Glenda
We all just grew up in a very different time and I think if we communicate more and we come from a place of wanting to think that the other person is just trying to understand and not trying to be antagonizing or trying to be just an asshole for the purpose of being an asshole, I we'd all be in a better place and we can all have more civil conversations, especially in the.
Alexa
Trenches really matters.
Glenda
Yeah, it really does. And in the workplace, like, it's really, really difficult. And I remember we had a conversation, one of our guests who said that at her company, they had a, what, a three second hug policy. So if you were going to hug somebody, well, if you didn't ask first for permission to hug somebody, the hug could not be a front to front hug.
Glenda
It had to be like a side hug. And the hug, the embrace could not last more than 3 seconds because then, you know, was this. Yeah. Oh, yes. This was like.
Aileen
She gave us the whole course.
Glenda
And yeah, she gave the whole course and how to do how to and proper.
Aileen
Hug and proper hug.
Glenda
Exactly. And 3 seconds and again.
Alexa
Who did.
Aileen
This. A high level executive at a high level company.
Glenda
Yes.
Alexa
At a previous firm you worked with. Okay. Sorry I missed. I missed who it was.
Glenda
Yeah. You know, it was a guest that we had in the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. And she told us this. And again, I'm from Miami. We are all about kissing. Hugging like, Yes, I.
Alexa
Literally go, Everybody gets a hug and a kiss, man, you know, seconds to go and you're leaving. And I get a hug, Give me a kiss.
Glenda
You leave it. We went to the office in the morning and give everybody, Oh, hey, a kiss and hung in the morning. I mean, who knows what we did, but we did so. But but that's a very cultural thing. So it was crazy to hear at this company that this no policy.
Alexa
Fucking product has.
Glenda
Been out. So what's happening?
Tyson
They just turn things into something that they're not like an bye bye overcomplicating the hug. You've just you've.
Aileen
You've made.
Tyson
A mountain. A mountain out of a mobile, right? Yeah. So something that I might not have thought of as an issue before, all of a sudden I'm like, wait, like, hold on. This is like a big deal.
Aileen
Yes. Yes.
Glenda
So one takes it directly to the h.r. Perspective. I love tyson's brain is always there. Also, i'm.
Tyson
Like, don't, don't don't hug me. I'm like, he's like, don't come.
Alexa
To me with your weird hugs, your weird horror stories. I don't want to fucking. Yeah.
Tyson
Yeah, it's No, no, no.
Alexa
No. Imagine you do that. And I think the problem and I hate to fucking say this, and I know I'll get shit for it, but like, now all of a sudden, you're giving people a reason to think that the hugs were.
Aileen
Wasn't.
Alexa
Was not situation.
Glenda
Right now.
Alexa
There was mal intent overthinking it and everybody's worried And so now that and.
Glenda
Then you're like.
Alexa
A reason for someone to be like, oh I was uncomfortable during the hug and it's like, oh well said is like ruined the situation for the person who really does have it. Yes. And yes to cry wolf. And we've given everybody this sensitivity about something that is like drawing attention and sensitivity away from things that really fucking matter.
Aileen
Yes.
Alexa
And yeah. And the.
Tyson
Time that would go into doing something like that.
Aileen
Imagine writing that policy and doing the video. It's like.
Alexa
The.
Aileen
Right way to hug. The wrong way to hug.
Alexa
Yeah. Like.
Tyson
And then never make them do it.
Alexa
Can you imagine the budget they spend to have those explainer videos and training for training videos? We know and the and the horrific like old terrible like.
Glenda
You know, creepy.
Alexa
Sure yeah. Just the worst fucking video production quality of all time to tell you how to not like how to side hug your Oh my God what the fuck?
Aileen
Yeah. And I think another thing worth pointing out because you guys ask about the cultural differences are one thing that was really amazing for me to see again as somebody joining later. Corporate America was the way that the language is utilized in corporate. And what I mean by that is that in Latin America you use Spanish to talk.
Aileen
In corporate America, you use corporate language to talk in corporate.
Glenda
It's so not just regular English.
Aileen
It's just all this lingo and expression to come across as being sophisticated. And we didn't do that. And we don't do that in Spanish. It's like it's the same language here. It is not. So it wasn't just learning, you know, the new gig of the new environment. It's like, Oh, this is the corporate credit. People say, who are successful and not only the lingo, but the political correctness was at a level that I we just don't we don't do that.
Aileen
We we talk and we say what we think. And here it's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. You don't say what you think. As directly as you're thinking it, you need to be very strategic and how communicate what words you choose, what your tone is. So that was a whole other layer of, Oh, okay, this is how people successful people in corporate America behave.
Aileen
So at the beginning for me, it was just so many different unwritten words, unwritten code that went into the corporate game that it was it.
Tyson
Was like so.
Aileen
Logical. Yes. Like of, Oh, how we behave. All right.
Alexa
Yeah. It's just a bunch of white guys that used to use a bunch of big words to keep everybody from not thinking they understood what was going on in the business. And now we just all fucking use it and it's gross.
Glenda
Yeah. Yeah. So? So it just.
Alexa
Really comes from.
Glenda
It, knowing you're absolutely right.
Alexa
That language is a barrier.
Glenda
Yeah, it really is. And then when you're when you can pick up on how to use it. So, you know, Aileen talks about her like culture shock. When she came in, to me it was always normal because I grew up in that I didn't see anything but that. And it's just like my personality. I'm usually more buttoned up.
Glenda
And, you know, I talk about the fact that, you know, I'm.
Alexa
Going to drink. Well.
Glenda
Girl, trust me. Oh, something tells me part.
Alexa
Of me tells me a couple of drinks later, you loosen up.
Glenda
That part of me was long gone like that. That that was the beginning of my career because I didn't have a lot of like, female executives to look up to. And the few that had a seat at the table all spoke and behaved in that way. So, you know, I grew up as as like the oldest of three, and I was like the cultural and literal translator for my family.
Glenda
So I learned at a very young age that you need to learn how to speak well, you need to learn how to present yourself well. You need to learn how be dressed well for you to be taken seriously. And that just stuck in my brain. And when I got into corporate America and I saw people doing that very same thing to quote unquote get ahead, I was like, oh, okay.
Glenda
So that's the formula. Then cut to 15 years into my career. I mean, I mean, who comes in to work as like, this really cool fucking chick with, like, her cool coats and red Converse and, like, ripped up jeans and knowing her shit. And I was like, What the fuck? What is my not realizing I'm.
Alexa
Telling a bottle of tequila Ready to go?
Glenda
No, no. I had the bottle to clean my office.
Alexa
But then you're both tequila drinkers. Oh, yeah. This is. That's why this is so spicy. I love it.
Glenda
I love it. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Alexa
I love it. All right. So I want to talk specifically because I know Tyson's chomping at the bit to get to this part. I want to talk a little bit about your experiences with H.R. and where I want to start. And I'm not going to say three sentences because I know that would backfire on me, but I want to start with like, what are the what are the good things that have been your experience with H.R. in your careers?
Alexa
You've done that. You've done the journey like you've climbed the ladder. Like where? Let's talk about the good associations you have with H.R. and the stories that go with them.
Aileen
I can start with that. And so as hard as this process was for me to come from Latin America to the U.S., I would say the person that that the way that I'm going to do a shout to Christine Coppola, who was the vice president of H.R., that was the first time that I understood the role of H.R., like how we were talking about in that episode in our side, you know, the H.R. partner, a strategic partner, somebody who was not there to just, you know, check on the boxes of compliance, but they were really behind you as a partner in moving things forward and making the department better and helping people out.
Aileen
And this person was like my team to to really make things change because I began at this company with the goal to make some changes and spice things up. And she was coming from New York as well. So she was this New Yorker with, you know, Italian heritage. So she was a no B.S. like no fluff, really smart lady who also had appreciated a sense of humor.
Aileen
So the two of us would really have meetings to address. Okay, this is going down. This is a shitshow. What can we do? And her language to me was very direct and very transparent, saying, okay, this you're going have pushback from this and this and this and this, and you need to prepare and think about A, B and C if you want to push that forward.
Aileen
So she was instrumental for me to understand how H.R. could really be an ally and she would strongly advocate for employees, but at the same time, she understood the business. And that's a really hard balance to find, and she was amazing at that. I also have a horrible story. So, you know, we want to.
Tyson
Know I think it's I think you hit on something really, really important. I think H.R. is in this pivotal time where like historically, like a lot of folks in H.R. are not saying everybody. A lot of people in H.R. believe that you have to be sort of like button up, very corporate, use the lingo, use the like, you know, be this like very like reserve person, not sort of like share, you know, a lot times positivity not over.
Tyson
Yes. And even I started out my career like I felt like, okay, like I am like a representation of the company and I have to be like a very specific way. And if we're ruling out a process from the company, like, I have to like, advocate for it. But it wasn't until I started being like, Look, this thing is rolling out, it's fucked up.
Tyson
It's seriously fucked up. But like, I got you. Like, we're going to do it together. We're going to get through this together.
Aileen
Exactly.
Alexa
That direct correlation between Tyson's career and the number of F-bombs she uses at work.
Tyson
No, it seriously that that's when I moved on to, like, the other side of H.R., which is, you know, being a true partner and, like, not someone who's just blowing smoke up your ass, but someone who's like, All right, I'm going to help you. Like, we're talking about surfing corporate, Like, I'm going to help you navigate all of this corporate bullshit that we're all sort of trekking through that we've been talking about this whole episode, right?
Tyson
So it's really trying to help navigate all this shit. And like, I know from like a company perspective what's going on. I know from a business perspective like what you're dealing with and I'm going to find this like the amazing place where we're going to, like, mesh well together.
Aileen
That was exactly that. That was amazing. Like, if you land a strong H.R. partner that is.
Glenda
A gay golden, it is like there's no way to describe how incredibly difficult it is to do the job of a senior leader at a company when there's so many decisions and strategic changes and things that are happening. If you don't have a strong partner in H.R., because I've had both. I've had really great partners in H.R. and have had really not like not at all great partners.
Glenda
And that like the story that sticks out to me the most when I think about like a really great H.R. story is precisely what you were talking about. TYSON When my H.R. person and it was weird because we had been working together for a while and she was very buttoned up and I was very buttoned up. So between her and I were both like, Well, who can be more corporate?
Glenda
Let's get down. Like, I'm going to out corporate you right now. But it wasn't until there was a situation where I was being forced to put an employee on a performance improvement plan, and I didn't think it was warranted, but my boss was like, had it out for this person. And, you know, the boss was like, No, no, no, but you're being too lenient.
Glenda
But no, this person is they're not performing. And I was like, No, I know when I'm being more lenient and I know when I'm not, I'm not cutting this person any more slack than I would to anybody else. And then when I had the conversation with the chairperson, something happened during that conversation, I feel like. And she said, since she said this to me years later, she's like, I knew when you were talking to me about putting that employee on that plan, I knew that it wasn't you.
Glenda
I knew that there was something else going on and that she took the first step to say, Let's close the door. This is a you and me conversation. This is not on the record. What's happening? And for that moment I was like, Oh shit, do I? Do I like put the cards on the table and tell me what's happening.
Alexa
First reaction when H.R. shuts the door.
Glenda
Yeah, because you're like, Oh, what the off the record conversation. You're like.
Tyson
H.R., put your fucking pens down for a second, right?
Glenda
And at that moment, it was that decision that I had to make of Do I trust this person in what she's telling me? That she's really going to try to help me navigate this, this really tricky situation? Or is this person trying to con me into giving her information that she can use it against me later? And it was one of those just split second decisions of following my gut.
Glenda
And I said, fuck it, I'm just going to tell her. And that changed the game for me and that honestly changed my.
Alexa
You got to like that. You got a good idea.
Glenda
I really got a good one. And I can't say that that's the case for everybody. But in this case, I mean, I like to think that because we had been working together for a while, I kind of I knew that I could trust her. I didn't I couldn't be 1,000%. But I went for it and it turned out well.
Glenda
But that that one situation changed my perspective because up until then, Tyson, to your point, H.R. had been that extension of corporate and that, you know, the police and, you know, the people that you had to go to to get the compliance done right and the onboarding and all of this, the like the check the box operational things that traditional H.R. people did for you and not looking at them as a like I'm more as like a partner that can help you and help guide you through a really sticky situation.
Glenda
So that to me was like the big moment where it shifted in my brain as to how I could look to, to work with my the future H.R. partners that I had.
Alexa
That's awesome. Yeah. And then, like, you got to remember, like, in every organization, those people are not necessarily set up to be partners to you, not that they don't want to be. It's like not just divides, just they're not roles and responsibilities like don't want that or appreciate that or or reward that. Right. And that's why it's one of the things Tyson, I think try to shed light on more is like the way that you structure the function of h.r.
Alexa
Like really fucking matters. Yeah. You can't set these people up to be paper pushers and expect them to be strategic partners like you. They have like they have to go together. Yeah. Yeah. All right, so, with all that said, let's talk about the other side of this coin, which is, what are, what are your worst experiences with H.R.?
Alexa
And I want, like, the worst fucking thing you can think.
Aileen
Oh, I.
Alexa
See this one just fucking story you think.
Glenda
I'm so afraid of? Actually, I'm just.
Alexa
Always like, I got this because.
Glenda
Aileen has a story for everything I like to like anything you can think of. It either happened to her or happened to somebody very close to her that she can do.
Aileen
Shit happens to me. Really random shit. But this is.
Alexa
What's your zodiac sign?
Aileen
I would two. I'm Aquarius.
Alexa
Oh, no. All right. I had you pegged as a as a what does that a water sign?
Tyson
Yeah, it's nice. And everything else in the air Sign.
Aileen
I know. I know a lot about this. Okay, So. So my horrible H.R. story, there's context here. So I have been asked. I had joined this company as an SVP, one area, one department. And again, it was it was a struggle because it's I got a new country, new culture, new lingo, rad new people. And after one year, I was finally feeling like, okay, I think I think I got this.
Aileen
Okay. So I'm starting to feel comfortable. And then somebody very, very high up says, I want you to take on this entire other department, the marketing department. And I was like, What? That's like three times the size. No, I'm so that was on the table. And I remember three people telling me, if you turn down this proposal, they're never going to give you a promotion again.
Aileen
Like, that's a no no. You take whatever they're offering you and you find a way to make it work. So I was very hesitant. But with that speech, I'm like, okay, they needed something. They needed the success very fast. They needed this to move forward very quickly. Like, okay, okay, I'm on board, I'll figure this out. And I had a two year old baby at the time, so it was like, This makes a man.
Aileen
So okay, let's let's let's take this song. They do like a vague announcement, whatnot. Okay, let's go. But a month in, you know, there was still no clarity. What's what is the title? What is the calm? And in the system in our company, if you put in somebody whose name the title would appear and my old title up here and I needed to go to meetings that did not invite involve my my old title, it was about my new title.
Aileen
But nobody in the broader company know about it. So i had a meeting with h.r. And i have an immediate one on one meeting, and, you know, i to sit down and explain, i'm like, this is very exciting. I like to have, you know, I'm a month in. I would really like to have some clarity as to what the title is and what the comp is going to be for for this new role.
Aileen
And when I get, you know, the spiel on the pushback, it's like, well, oh, you know, your contract is coming up in nine months. How about we let's just roll with it nine months, Jesus Christ, and we'll revisit it later. And I'm like, I tried to explain like, there is a ton of meetings. People are reaching out. My title doesn't correspond.
Aileen
I think it's really important that we have clarity to what the scope of my role is and what the name of my role is. And well.
Alexa
And by the way, I want to be fucking paid for.
Glenda
It because I'm doing it.
Aileen
Yes. The you know, to have the compensation and he just pushes back again and give. And then I come back again and said, I'm really here. I really want the clarity and the his face transform. And he starts saying, Oh, so I guess you're one of those people that gets hung up on titles. And I just one like I was taking on a little bit of back on my no, I'm one of those people that is hung up on transparency and clarity.
Aileen
I do get hung up on that, so I want to know what the title is and what the content is going to be like. Again, we're going to renegotiate your contract like in nine months. And I'm like, Oh, so does that mean that I get retroactive pay for whatever it is? And then something happened. He lost his shit and.
Tyson
The eight hour fest to.
Aileen
Me, the head of h.R. The top dog of H.R. said to me, you come into my office vomiting your ideas and vomiting your requests on my desk, waving your hands because I'm Latina, I wave my fucking hands. That's who I am and expecting and this information. And that leads me to believe that you're not even ready for this position.
Aileen
Instead of being grateful for an experience like I've experienced it. And I just stared at him like his face was red. He was so angry. And I just took a step back and I just sat up and said, Thank you so much for your time. And I left. And he said, Oh, yes, thank you, thank you. And I could see that he knew that he had fucked up.
Aileen
Yeah. And I just walked out of that office and I was and read.
Alexa
Those of you that are not watching this, Tyson's jaw is on the floor, right?
Glenda
I was like, Well, looks like.
Alexa
I just wonder.
Aileen
What just happened. Do you imagine a guy going in to say, I would like clarity on the job? I'm doing what the title and the comp and being told that you're vomiting ideas and demands because you're asking for that. Why don't I wait nine months? So I was just and rage and I remember my boss at the time gave me the best advice that somebody could have given me.
Aileen
He was like, Yeah, this fucking sucks, but this is what's going to happen. Do your job, do your thing. What's going to happen is that from here to nine months you are going to kick ass so bad that when they do renegotiate with in nine months, they're going to have to pay you a lot more than that what they would be settling to pay you today.
Aileen
So that's the game that you're going to play and that's what happened. But the thing is that nine months later, the person I had to negotiate my contract with was the same dude.
Tyson
Why is H.R. even negotiating these contracts?
Aileen
I have no chance. I think she's a manager. But that's how that's how it worked.
Tyson
That's how that that's the issue with this. So hold on. At first I'm thinking like, you know what, Sometimes our hands are tied because like, we want to give comp increases, but the business is shitting the bed and they're like, they cannot figure out like how to give comp or whatever. Like there's some other thing that's preventing people from like actually giving comp increases.
Tyson
The number of times I've had like operational issues with getting people letters and changing titles, bullshit like that, it's, it's like that happens. The operation should have it shouldn't, but it does because it's like a broken system. But the next part where he starts yelling is where I'm like, Who does that? Like.
Aileen
Who are you to come here and demand clarity? Like, Yeah, I said, That's great. That's when he's.
Tyson
Like, Look, these are all the things that we've got going on behind the scenes. I can't fix your title because so-and-so is blocking this, but like, this is what I'm doing to fix it. Or like, Yeah, we can't do anything because you're on a contract right now. So unfortunately our hands are tied, we can't do shit.
Alexa
And your title, you never should have been promoted. But yeah.
Tyson
This shouldn't have.
Alexa
Happened. So. Right, exactly right, right.
Tyson
So, like, if we need to expedite the process of renegotiating your contract, it's going to take a little bit of time. You might not see a title change or comp change right away, but we're going to expedite the process in terms of renegotiating that, because you've we've clearly started asking you for like something above and beyond. That's like how the conversation should have went down.
Alexa
So that asshole is one of the reasons that everybody fucking hate that guy. She's incompetent. He's just fucking incompetent.
Aileen
But but I will say this. I don't think he was a bad dude per se. I think he had a really bad day, which he never apologized for but did.
Glenda
Acknowledge.
Aileen
Later. He did say that was definitely not my best day. And I said it definitely was not such.
Alexa
A male way of apologizing. Right.
Aileen
But yes, it's like.
Alexa
Apologizing without apologizing.
Glenda
And moments later.
Aileen
But months later, what happened was because of that conversation, because I felt like like it was just it was just I just felt so wrong. I was asking a legitimate question and I was told that I was vomiting, like, whoa, what?
Alexa
So it's his That was his fucking job.
Aileen
Yes. Yeah. Like and, it's his.
Alexa
Job for you to have clarity.
Aileen
It is his job. But they wanted to play the card of, you know, the experience. It's a growth like. And, you know, I'm too old for that. And at this point, like, you're not going to get around me by saying that it's an opportunity. I pay me the three times of scope. Three times the people tell me what this is about.
Aileen
But for that negotiation, since it was going to be with him again, I prepared the hell out of those meetings and it took six meetings with him to finally come to a number. I just very set and I need to make very clear what my worth is, what I'm bringing to the table, what I'm worth and why. And at that point, every single launch we had done to that moment had surpassed every single metric.
Aileen
So when he came in, I was like, Hey, here we are. Guess what? I haven't burned the department. Well, yeah. And he is like.
Alexa
Ducks in a row. Share the rock.
Aileen
So you have.
Glenda
Yes. But you know, it's interesting though, and like and I wish that you guys had been around when when these things were happening. But I think if you could just.
Alexa
Discreetly pass him the link to our podcast.
Glenda
Oh, can you imagine? Oh, my God, that would be so good.
Alexa
Just drop it in his DMS.
Glenda
You know, I've been so naive.
Aileen
I don't that a horrible person.
Glenda
I talk about him.
Aileen
I did not play that one correctly.
Glenda
But what I'm saying though is I think there's such a valid conversation to be had about making sure you know your worth and making sure that in those discussions when you have to have, you know, a negotiation discussion or a contract renewal discussion, if you're at that level or even when you're just regular up for your normal raise, like go prepared, like a lot of people go in with the idea of like, I just deserve a 10% raise.
Glenda
And anybody who's for Rick knows, like 10% raise like that doesn't happen. Like, you know.
Alexa
That's like just 10%.
Glenda
That's exactly. Unfortunately, it's sad, but true. But if you go in prepared and you go in, having done your homework, it helps position you as somebody who knows what they're worth, who knows that they know their what their worth is and can back up with metrics. Right?
Alexa
I absolutely can talk about that a lot. And yeah, you don't get a raise just because you fucking want one or because you're good at your job. Like that just isn't how it works. Like, yeah, there's budgets set a set ahead, you know, in larger corporations years in advance for comp. Yes. And new salary pools that if you don't get in the right cycle there just is no money for for comp like comp because like it you just missed the fucking window like the organization does not revolve around what you fucking want like because you decided that you want like there's a whole process and all you can do is arm yourself to the teeth
Alexa
to have those conversations. And I would argue if I had to guess that for every ten people that do the homework that you probably did, I lean to get two. And I'm sure Tyson sees people unprepared for this shit all the time to really prepare for that conversation. Ten people were to do that level of homework. I bet five plus of them would walk away and go, I'm not actually sure I deserve a raise by now, given where my ratio is at, given where I'm at in my career, given the way that the cycle works at this business, like I'm going to try, but I actually am not sure that I quote unquote deserve a
Alexa
raise given. Everything I know in the homework that I've done because there's just no chance. But you send ten people out to do comp research on their roles, let's call them, you know, sort of like mid-level standard roles. And every single one of them is due for an increase, you know, given, you know, wherever they're at, you know.
Alexa
Yeah.
Tyson
The problem is people.
Alexa
Don't like people.
Tyson
Don't have self-awareness, because what they do is they take their job and then they compare it to a job that's a level or two above. Then, you know, let's say they're like an individual contributor and then all of a sudden they're comparing their job to like a like a higher level rule out in the market or like we see that all the time.
Tyson
People who are like, oh, like I should be promoted. I should be promoted. And they lack the self-awareness to understand like where they're coming up short are like, what? Yeah, like what the true expectations are for the next level.
Alexa
And it's like, Well, yeah, you can make $10,000 more. You're over there, but you have to get hired over there. Yeah, you didn't get that. Are you going to hire here for that role here? Is this?
Aileen
Yeah. And I love.
Glenda
I love hearing this from you guys because it's like the perspective of how to frame it in a way that from the business perspective, which absolutely sense, by the way, because I do agree with you that there's like the self-awareness issue, you know, there's all sorts of biases, right? I think people put a lot of weight on what their contributions are, more so than a lot of times.
Alexa
Timewe equate weight, instant identity and self-worth to how much we make what we do for a living full time, like says a person, who all I do is fucking work like they're like, I spent a lot of the last six months as a nomad and tethering my identity from what I do for a living. But that's a different conversation and probably a whole episode.
Alexa
So the what's what the connector is Aileen story, though. And then I want to get going to your horror story because we're we're coming up on time. Here is the Tyson's point like the whole point that H.R. guy in that moment was to demystify and explain to you this process and to be the one to be like, Hey, you need to go do your homework.
Alexa
Hey, here's the business case for why this is stuck. Hey, here's how this works around here so that you can prepare for that meeting in nine months and feel informed on how we got here together. And you didn't do any of that shit. And that's the fucking problem.
Aileen
I remember.
Alexa
I never learned that self-awareness. Right? Someone in H.R. just has to make you a little more self aware.
Aileen
Yeah I wasn't asking a promotion they asked.
Alexa
Me to do. They gave it to you, and they say.
Aileen
Yeah.
Alexa
Yeah, yeah, I know. We it. All right, Glenda, give us your horse.
Glenda
Or what? Listen, it is not anywhere near as dramatic or, like, life changing or, like, literally such high stakes on on like, on the table. But it was something that was really fucking traumatizing for me as a manager very early on in my career. And I don't want to get graphic because it can get low. It's just a situation where I was the production manager for a team and the production manager's different from the producer, so I explained a little with what the producer does, but the production manager deals more with budgets and issues, and in this particular function i dealt the most closely with h.R.
Glenda
And the business side and operations side of of that particular department. There was a person who was a very dedicated, great employee. I mean, she was wild love. She was an older lady, very well loved, very well-liked, very well respected. I mean, really great employee by any metric that you measure except for the fact that she had very offensive B.O. But like.
Alexa
Oh, I.
Glenda
Kind of look this like Lady Bo. I am telling you, I don't suggest.
Alexa
To be like.
Glenda
Girls. Yeah, girls.
Alexa
I know. We all like to think we're flowers, but girls can be gross.
Glenda
I'm just saying.
Alexa
That I'm.
Glenda
Going to leave it. I'm going to leave it at that horrible hormones. So because this woman was so well liked and actually did her job really well, like nobody knew how to approach the subject. But there were situations where you were in a small editing bay and the scent was actually not you. There were times where you'd be in a production van and it was or it was cold and you couldn't roll down the windows and the scent and like everybody knew it and everybody talked about it.
Glenda
And people would come to me. People would come to me because the head of the department was a man, the executive producer was the man, a general producer was a man. So I was the highest sort of ranking woman, but I was in my early twenties. Like, what? And this woman was like a mother figure to everybody. Like, she was amazing, like, so lovely.
Glenda
But she had this really bad problem and nobody could talk to her about it. So everybody would come to me and they would leave me notes on my desk like, You need to do something about this. Like you need to talk to her. And it got to the point where somebody said, if you don't do something about it, we are we're going to do a gift basket of all of these feminine hygiene products and leave it on her desk.
Glenda
And I'm like, Please don't do that. Nothing passive.
Tyson
Aggressive.
Glenda
And I was like, Please don't do that. She's the same.
Alexa
Assholes that let you have broccoli in your teeth for like, all night are the same fucking.
Glenda
Assholes. So anyway, long story short, this one on I'm not even kidding. This went on for months, months and months and months and months until it became really unbearable. That that the head of the department found out. And he talked to me like, listen, what do do? Like somebody has to say something. Somebody has to do something. But it was like, I don't know what to do.
Glenda
I'm a woman. But like, what do you expect me to do? So they had me go talk to the person I at the time, this company that I worked at was a large enough company. I'm talking like a thousand plus employees. And there was one h.r. Person and her assistant. And her assistant was like an executive assistant. It wasn't even anybody who did h.r.
Glenda
Stuff. It was just assisting her. And i had to have a conversation with this woman and explain to her in the nicest possible way what was happening, and she's like, okay, glenda. Well, clearly, I can't have the conversation with her because she's not doing anything wrong. Like she's not breaking any sort of rules policy. It's not an ED issue.
Tyson
It's not.
Glenda
An issue. So you're going to have to do it, but don't worry, I'll coach you. So I literally had to do a role play with this H.R. person that, by the way, this is like maybe the first night was the first time I ever had to have a conversation with her for like, a business reason other than, hey, listen, I'm going to you know, I need a tuition reimbursement or, you know, one of our employees is, you know, wants to take another day off.
Glenda
How do we handle the role of, like, stupid things like that? So I had the conversation with her and she locked me in her office and she's like, okay, let's role play. And she had like the softest voice. It was like very soothing, but it was very aggravating because she wasn't giving me specific words or things to say was more like, Okay, Glenda, I'm going to pretend I'm the employee.
Glenda
And you talk to me about the problem and then I'll tell you if that's okay, if that's not okay. So we went at this for like an hour and I was exhausted. And at the end she basically said, okay, no, no, no, you're fine, you're good. Go have the conversation. Let me know how it goes. So I felt like alone having to have this conversation with this woman and I said to my boss, I'm like, listen, do you want H.R. there?
Glenda
Because and he's like, No, are you crazy? That's just going to make the issue even bigger. But I was.
Alexa
Just sort of feel, was it H.R. problem?
Glenda
I was so nervous. And how did you learn?
Tyson
Okay, hold on. Let's dissect this just for a sec here. So the H.R. person actually did everything right except for the fact that she should have given you a script. Like we actually had a script that was floating around in one of the while. You dealt with that? I worked with, I dealt with. It was so common that we had a script.
Alexa
Is actually pretty common.
Tyson
We had a story.
Glenda
Are you serious? Yeah. My gosh. I got to do not like.
Tyson
We had a script. So. But here's the thing. This is where H.R. actually has to, like, you know, be has to think this through a little bit. Is there a cultural why this individual doesn't use like deodorant or cleaning problems? Is there a health issue that could lead to this particular problem? We have to think about the whole person, Right.
Tyson
And like be respectful. God, I'm so happy that we're I'm I'm remote now. I don't deal with this. But you could smell however you want. I don't to deal with this shit, but. But the H.R. person actually did everything right in that she brought you in and she's like, here, like, let's role play a little bit, because this is like going to be really uncomfortable.
Tyson
But it didn't have to become I think everyone makes these things a lot bigger of an issue than they really need to be because we, like no one wants to hurt anyone's feelings, but it's just like Alexa said, like if you have, you want to tell someone that they've got something in their teeth, right? So this is not an H.R. thing.
Tyson
This is something where, like if you have a close relationship with this individual, it's just.
Alexa
I think you should just nip it.
Tyson
Yeah, I want to pull aside.
Glenda
Shameless. Well, that's exactly the approach I took, because I was I really did respect and admire her very much. And the approach I took was just as a friend to friend. This is not me as production manager. This is not anybody. And it was I think it went as well as it could have been. Like she cried because she's like, Wait, how many people how many people have said this?
Glenda
And I didn't want to get into any specifics. And I was just like, it's just been brought. It's just been brought up. And, you know, my thing, I just want to make sure, are you okay? Maybe you want to get a checkup. And this is just me sort of adlibbing. I hadn't even played that with the H.R. person, but it was just I felt like I needed to have compassion with her at the moment.
Glenda
And she just broke down crying, saying like, I can't believe. Like, nobody told me. Like, why did it have to become such issue? And of course, her first question was like, does the head of the department boss, does the big boss know? And I had to say yes. And that's when she was like, Oh my God, I'm mortified.
Glenda
And and that to me was like one of those moments that I wish I didn't have to, like, have gone through that.
Tyson
That's when I feel like a little white lie might have, like, I might feel a little like.
Glenda
Really I would.
Tyson
Have just said.
Aileen
Hey, I would have been like.
Tyson
I just really.
Alexa
Talked about.
Tyson
It. No, but I didn't do anything but like, you and I just like between us, like I just noticed that. I noticed that we noticed it. Okay. I actually did just that.
Glenda
If I ever have a problem with anybody else. No, I knew.
Tyson
Have a very quickly. This is just too good. I do have an H.R. friend who we had an individual who. A woman who had a smell problem, and she worked on site in a trailer with men. And the men brought it to the attention of my my, my girlfriend who works in H.R., And they're like, We're not having this conversation.
Tyson
You have to do it. You're a woman. You have to have this conversation. And they're on a site like the job site, right? So my girlfriend, my H.R. girl, literally rolls up to the site. She's never been there before, goes into the trailer, tells this poor lady she smells and like leaves, like no reason to be there other than to tell this poor lady that she has a smell problem.
Tyson
And that's it, because the guys couldn't do it. And like, that might be probably probably was better off coming from the H.R. person in that particular situation.
Alexa
I just walked in there and given every single person a stick of deodorant and been like, You guys figure out who it is.
Tyson
One of you smells.
Alexa
One of you stinks. So you all get deodorant. But now I think shower twice.
Glenda
Now I need to know, like, so. So this is actually common. I thought that this was like, oh my gosh. Okay, so here I.
Alexa
Am, like, Luis and smells involved.
Tyson
There are variations of this issue is very common. I've had people, you know, missing the urinal. I think I've talked about that on the podcast before, you know, and I've had managers have not addressed that.
Alexa
Yeah, yeah. Bad breath stories.
Tyson
Spitting, spitting in the sink was another one. Someone says, Yeah, I think we have to address this.
Aileen
Yeah, yeah.
Alexa
Flushing with your feet. Yeah. A lot of that. Yeah, yeah.
Tyson
Flushing on the toilet. Sitting on the toilet is gross.
Alexa
Is for everything about working with humans. It's disgusting. It's disgusting. But anyway.
Glenda
So many levels.
Alexa
Moving on. I want to get to the most important part of this, which is surfing corporate before we get to our people problem. So my my question for you guys is you're you're behind. You're the wonderful masterminds behind this awesome account. It's so funny. You're constantly finding, like, the funniest stuff and the most relevant stuff that I think kids record for people.
Alexa
So like what? What's the goal behind being like another corporate meme account? Like, it's like meme. Corporate meme culture is everywhere. You guys are definitely like, you know, one of the goats, but like, where does this come from? And like, what is your goal with all of this is to like, call bullshit on people, which I just appreciate for what that is, But we're.
Glenda
Here for it. Yes.
Alexa
Yeah.
Aileen
So actually the goal was never the meme account. This, this all began after I left corporate and I had my health scare and I was like in this Yoda process of processing things that had gone down, I started writing and that was my my way to cope and to understand and to vent. And I started writing and writing and writing and writing my stories and, you know, just funny around said about the madness of corporate life and the ups and downs.
Aileen
And I remember showing it to Glenda, and Glenda was just like this, This is awesome. And there's there's nothing out there like this because it was really from an insider's point of view where the real story is what how shit goes down, how this loss is made because I had gone from the very, you know, pro producer all the way up to SVP.
Aileen
And when you get to those levels, you get to see a lot of the behind the scenes and how the sausage is made. And I, you know, I went on private jets and then you would see like weird random. There was just like a lot a lot to share. And it had been complicated for me to navigate that whole world at the beginning.
Aileen
And I'm like, I can't be alone in this. And I'm sure there's other. I would have really wanted somebody to tell me, Hey, you're not not like, this is how it works. Like, hang in there, because this is what you're going to need to make this happen. So I wrote a manuscript. I wrote a book which my computer thought was fabulous.
Aileen
And when I was, I did, too. I did too. And doing the research for publication and was like, Oh, okay. If you do not have a community build, nobody's going to publish that unless, like, your dad is, okay? It's like, forget that. So my oh, I can't do this backwards now. So then it's like, okay, let me start a new market.
Aileen
I know nothing about social media, but I'm like, I've just going to share funny shit that I've created, Funny shit that I find from my trying to curate the best stuff that I can find out there and just started that is very, very, very, very thing. And then the thing is like with social media, it's very, it's very short, It's very media.
Aileen
You can expand, you can't really, you know, it's a good laugh, but you can't really give, you know, insights and thoughts. So that's where it's like, well, we need a space and a platform where we can have longer conversations about this. And that's where the podcast idea came to Pike, and that's where I told going to like, I need a counterpart here because my point of view is very particular that I need the balance of somebody who lives and has grown up on corporate corporate lingo in corporate corporate juice her whole life.
Aileen
And that's how this, this whole thing happened. And having the real life conversations about what really goes down. We like to put in a lot of research into this. So we read the latest articles of HBO and Forbes and all that jazz and the latest work, the latest folks. And we digest that and really try to make it into like solid nuggets of advice.
Aileen
We've been in gaps that have either gone up the ranks of the corporate ladders or they're insensitive coaches or their h.r. People. They're either experts or people who have been in the grind to also give their perspective. And it's always true islands of humor. It's a lens of no matter how hard that can get, you can always see the humor and things because to me that was critical for corporate survival.
Aileen
If i can't laugh at it when things get really, really bad and if you don't find your place, that was my person when it hit the fan, I would go into her office and a fetal position in the chair. She'd just start saying, What? What is happening? And you have a person who was very corporate, like Wanda. Like, again, just just corporate rolls off her tongue and she would compliment me giving me, you know, like ninja corporate skills on how to handle certain situations.
Aileen
And I would make jokes to make her laugh. And that's how we kind of paid each other off. And that's the way we talk. A The things on the podcast, she is she sees the she sees things this very proper lens, one that's very proper. She is very kind and some nations are some very right and all of those things hardly I am not so we try to, we try to really throw out research and just real life stories We like I put out there all of my embarrassing shit because I think people in corporate tend to be.
Glenda
Because so much embarrassing shit has happened to you. And that's the funny thing. And I think that's part of the reason why you did your podcast, right. Like you guys and we talk about this all the time. Being real and being authentic and being being yourself just makes you more relatable. So just like we could say, no, it's true, but you know, it's part of making people feel less alone in the shit that happens because, you know, Aileen has gone through her.
Glenda
We've all had our own experiences. But when you talk people and you start hearing their stories and you're like, Oh wait, what? The shit doesn't only happen to me. And there's like a sense of belonging to this, like broader community of people who go through the same kind of shit, irrespective of the industry you're in or where you are in the corporate ladder.
Glenda
They're just some givens about working in corporate right? It does. But but by the way, we don't. We don't. And it's not about shitting on corporate all the time. It's not like we want to crap on it for all because it's not. I had a great corporate career. I can't say enough about how much I grew and all the experience I had and the people I met and the teams that I worked with.
Glenda
There's plenty of great to highlight about corporate. So we want to do that too. But if it's just.
Aileen
Like you can't really love your kids, but you can complain about your kids.
Glenda
But not every day is going to be wonderful. Yeah, some are going to be really shitty and it's just pulling back the curtain a little bit to talk about it so people feel less alone to have them feel seen and heard in a way. So that's what's important to us.
Aileen
I think in a non fluffy corporate lingo, kind of.
Glenda
I just don't really care.
Alexa
I was gonna say I know because I lean and I are spirit animals. Like I realize that we're both like, say whatever the fuck comes out of our mouth. We're thinking it like, you know, fiery, put your foot in your mouth, people. And Tyson and Glenda are the other two. Yeah, on the other side. But the being on the other side of people like me and Aileen is a gift.
Alexa
Like it takes a special kind of person to be able to shut the fuck up in a meeting and like, say, what is appropriate to be said and hold your tongue and navigate the corporate hierarchy. So I realize it's also very easy. Oh, you're the corporate type, but like, it's a fucking skill and I just know myself well enough to know I can't fucking do it and I don't really want to.
Alexa
But again, you know, just know thyself. But I think it's really important that, yeah, you know, both to your point, like both of these personas come together to say, Hey, there's actually a way to do this where, like, you don't have to be on either extreme of this. We can just have a natural working environment where people feel because most people, let's be honest, are between the two extremes.
Alexa
But when you're navigating situations that matter for pay and politics, you know, person persona and all these other things like it gets heated and people get emotional. And so like if you don't have an emotional counterpart that can say, Hey, wait a minute, well, I can navigate this better me talk to you, or Hey, let's let's work through this.
Aileen
Like and it's it's very tricky when you're in that cutthroat environment like what I found.
Tyson
So okay look somebody are people problem. This from a listener and we want to get your advice on it. I'm burned out and I need a serious change. What is your advice to help someone who is looking to make a career change in the corporate world?
Glenda
I can chime in by saying because I had a conversation very similar to this with a former coworker of mine not too long ago, and I'm very pragmatic when it comes to having these sorts of conversations or, you know, these process of thinking things through where you have to look at and take stock of, you know, just your your personal like your finances, your relationships with your family, like the economy, like it's it's burnout right now is have is happening at such an incredible pace that unfortunately I feel like so many people are living through it and feeling it.
Glenda
We actually had an amazing episode with an expert on burnout. She gave a ton of tips on how like how to navigate it. Obviously knowing yourself and doing self-care and taking care of yourself, those are obviously on top of the list. But I also think when people have those thoughts about like making a huge career pivot, you really, really have to be thoughtful about it because it's easy to think that the grass is going to be greener on the other side, but sometimes it's not and you have to plan for it.
Glenda
So I'm all for encouraging people to follow their dreams and their passions and doing, you know, whatever really motivates them and drives them. I'm all for that. I will be the biggest cheerleader in your corner, but do it in a smart and thoughtful way. Don't just drop your job without having anything lined up and thinking that somehow, magically, this great opportunity is going to land on your lap.
Glenda
Like you have to build the network, you have to build connections in whatever it is that you're going to try to get into your house and your homework.
Alexa
Six months to find a new job.
Glenda
Right? And that's it. Like a great economy. Not in an economy like we are now, where you're seeing headlines of layoffs in the thousands, like every day. So I would just say you have to be prepared to really do some soul searching, do some homework in terms of your finances, terms of your planning, How is it going to affect your daily life?
Glenda
You're if you're in a in a partner, like in a relationship with a partner, how is that going affect him, her, your family? Like there's a lot more that goes into that than just I am all of a sudden going to just drop it and, you know, pursue something else. And I say this from experience because my husband, at the age of 40, decided to leave his corporate career behind to become a full time actor.
Glenda
But this is something that he did because we planned for it. So years before we had said, like, he's like, I'm done. I'm so burnt, I don't want to do this anymore. I've always wanted to be an actor. I never had the opportunity because back in the day his parents were like actor, Are you crazy? Like, there's no money in that.
Glenda
And we and but he had the heart to heart conversation with me because obviously going from a dual income family to a one income family, that takes a big hit. So we planned for it and we made strategic decisions in terms of what to cut back on. And long story short, he did it. He became a full time actor and he followed his passion.
Glenda
And it was a bumpy road, but he did it. And he's still doing it despite a lot of.
Alexa
Challenges as a year.
Glenda
Glenda Well, many don't, but that's what I'm saying though, like have to be able to have those really deep, honest conversations with the people that are going to be impacted by your decision and then plan for it and be thoughtful about it.
Aileen
If I were to add anything to that, it would be to explore before making a huge move to explore side hustles because there is opportunity. The way that we are structured today, you have the opportunity to explore stuff, you know, and just just test the waters. Test if you're pivoting, try to start acquiring new skills, building that new skillset, testing it out, because that will enable you to if you're seeking for, I don't know, another corporate job you already will have your, you know, feet in the water and you will have some skills acquire and not make a jump from zero or in on the entrepreneurial side, you started doing this, you know, a side
Aileen
gig and then you realize, well, this is actually profitable. It's like an A you're in, you're building something, then maybe you take a dive, but not just for, you know, I'm burned out, I'm going to change, I'm going to change jobs tomorrow and everything will be great because it just doesn't always work out that way.
Tyson
Yeah. No, you're so right. Like, you can't make emotional decisions when you are in a state of burnout or stress or anything like that. Right. But it's so funny because I go back and forth on, you know, we hear about all the self-care routine and everything. And a friend of mine actually recently said, like, there's no amount of meditating that can fix a job.
Tyson
And I'm like, It's.
Aileen
True, It's true.
Tyson
And people think that doing like their skin care routine or like their yoga class, it's going to fix, you know, the problem that is just persistent and it's ongoing. Like you can't you can't like put a little Band-Aid on that and think that it's going to be fixed. So there's a part of me that's like, hey, we actually do need to sort of get ourselves out of these shitty situations.
Tyson
But I love that both of you sort of said, okay, there needs to be a and an exit lesson in how to do that. So you can't just sort of like, you know, quit your job and expect things to turn out. And I think there's also an opportunity to look even within the company. So if you're looking for career shifts, sometimes companies allow you to move into jungle gym and go check out something in a different department, like try opportunities internally as well.
Tyson
And or it's just figuring out, you know, is it truly is this an emotional change or are you truly looking to do something else? Because like, that's okay, too. And we saw that with this great resignation that we're sort of coming out now, we're in the freaking great layoff. But we we saw people, a lot of people quitting their jobs and looking elsewhere and retraining and getting new skills.
Tyson
So I think that there's definitely a lot of opportunity to change your career, but it has to be very well thought out. Yes.
Alexa
Yes. Yeah. As as as the risk taker, obviously, comparatively in this group, I would say I agree with all of those things. I'll be a fucking asshole or an idiot. But like, I'm like, you know, what is it? I think it's been Horowitz says, like, if you're going to eat shit, don't nibble. Like, if you're going to go for it, go for it, But just do it.
Alexa
Knowing that you've set yourself up to do it or don't, right? Like if if leaving is going to give you more stress, like not a great place, not a good time to do it if you're already burned out. And to Tyson's point, like take of why you're burned out, like are you doing too much in your job or have you set yourself up for burnout?
Alexa
Because doing the same shit in another company and got to fucking fix that.
Glenda
Exactly.
Alexa
And should Tyson's point like you can't self you can't self care your way out of like just truly being burned out. Like you have to take stock of how you got into this situation. That's internal factors. Focus on the internal factors. If it's external factors, then things like career changes and job changes and meaningful life shifts matter. But if you're just burnt out and you don't fucking know why, like that's not a great time to quit your job.
Alexa
Yeah, don't quit your job to find yourself. If you've got fucking bills, figure that shit out first and put.
Aileen
That on a T-shirt. Well.
Alexa
Yeah, Well, yeah. All right, ladies. What an absolute pleasure. Maybe our longest episode ever.
Glenda
So sorry for, like, I mean.
Tyson
I like we have to. I'm going to tell you.
Glenda
Reset.
Alexa
Every 5 minutes to answer a question, and you're going to. You're going to be all right.
Glenda
Thank you so much.
Alexa
Everyone knows they can go find you at Surfing Corporate. So fun. Thank you so much for being here. Check these guys out on surfing corporate. If you're not already following all the things and all the places at surfing corporate. Aileen and Glenda, thank you so much for being here.